Some Thoughts

[Wickey]

Interesting Jeff, better late than never.

Shame though your data capture does not show how many members have left due to 'snarky rude remarks after their posts' but I appreciate very difficult to ascertain the information.

I know when I was looking to buy the white Elan +2s (with questionable purple roof) off the past member 'Plus2' he said he withdrew not because he was that bothered by the rude remarks made by elansprint71 and spyder fan but because you would not remove the post of such a coveted 'high gear'. The fact it was a personal attack on Plus2 AND used bad language seems should have been at least top of the list back then.

So the record shows Plus2 left the forum............two years on you remove Plus2's membership through non usage of the forum...........then you start to clean up and remove the post that was the issue in the first place............

Given what I have read a few members did not either like what happened or what was written either.

Personally I think the forum lost a very talented and experienced Lotus guy who was just being very helpful to a new member looking for a car (tournesol). He has since also offered to attend any viewing with me to inspect a Lotus if I decide on one, so he might get to meet a few.

Like I have said previously I am no car mechanic and won't be posting much giving advice so should not come foul of the few that think they can just belittle another member trying to help by replying with a stupid remark with obviously no experience or facts/data, but think it will make them look 'talented'. I do however understand electric motors from my very early days and came across many marine Chief Engineers back then even 'deep sea' ones and never found one that had a clue about electrics.............so must go now and finish off that 'clutch sticking' post

[UAB807F]

better late than never.

hmm.

Now I don't know you and have no desire to cause insult or start a slanging match, but was that comment really necessary ? I'll accept that what's written on a post can be interpreted in ways that weren't intended, but that does come across to me as a sideways swipe at Jeff.

I don't know Jeff personally either, but I've been around here for a while and have come to appreciate just how much time (and money) the guy has put into running this forum.

To review so many posts and modify them is something that not many folks would do. I would have thought a simple "thank you" would have been more appropriate.

Brian

[john.p.clegg]

I'll second that..

John

[richardcox_lotus]

It's now clear.

Do

Not

Feed

The

Troll

[Wickey]

Certainly not intended as a 'snarky' snipe at Jeff, so yes you have both interpreted it wrong.

'Better late than never' is just a general supportive passing comment people may use regularly.........

Geez you guys do like to be picky and try and start a fight on anything, hiding behind the fact you say you don't want to fight........ Just call it day

[jcocking]

Interesting Jeff, better late than never.

Shame though your data capture does not show how many members have left due to 'snarky rude remarks after their posts' but I appreciate very difficult to ascertain the information.

I know when I was looking to buy the white Elan +2s (with questionable purple roof) off the past member 'Plus2' he said he withdrew not because he was that bothered by the rude remarks made by elansprint71 and spyder fan but because you would not remove the post of such a coveted 'high gear'. The fact it was a personal attack on Plus2 AND used bad language seems should have been at least top of the list back then.

So the record shows Plus2 left the forum............two years on you remove Plus2's membership through non usage of the forum...........then you start to clean up and remove the post that was the issue in the first place............

Given what I have read a few members did not either like what happened or what was written either.

Personally I think the forum lost a very talented and experienced Lotus guy who was just being very helpful to a new member looking for a car (tournesol). He has since also offered to attend any viewing with me to inspect a Lotus if I decide on one, so he might get to meet a few.

I have reviewed my records and I have no record of being contacted by Plus2 concerning the post. The post was never reported. When I was made aware of the post, it was immediately removed.

I have learned that people can justify any behavior they want with the stories they make up in their head. Your story is the forums are rude and mean to people. Your story is I am not capable of moderating the forums. No investigation. No getting to know people. No interest in the facts. Just your one side of the story.

I would continue with more info, but you are not interested in factual information. Your only interest is pushing your one sided story.

You raised a concern. I investigated it. I resolved it. Case closed.

I don't have time chasing windmills with Don Quixote.

Jeff

[Wickey]

Sorry Jeff you maybe wrong or just forgotten as I saw an email that you actually sent to PLUS2's sister a Mrs Bucknall who personally also made a complaint to you about the post as her children always followed their uncle with his various sports cars and he apperaed to encourage them to think of the solutions to various forum questions asked as they appear to have a lot of classic cars and aeroplanes and come from a family of automotive manufacturing.....indeed what was the largest UK component supplier to the automotive industry was a family business when I checked his background. The children are teenagers and been brought up on automotive interests so can hardly be kept off websites as I recall your response suggested it was her fault for not applying parental guidance, you just advised that they should perhaps not be looking in on the website.

So please don't say you only acted on the post when you were just recently advised as that is simply not what would appear from dates/period of the emails which I am sure was dated around late 2014 sometime.. Sadly as I did not get to buy his car I do not have the history file which in there was actually documented when I first viewed with copies of all what he had posted too.

I am sure had Plus2 still been around on the forum he would have thanked you for removing the content. As for me, like you I don't want to spend anymore time on this particular subject as I don't have any other details.

If the suggestion is PLUS2 may have faked some documents, I doubt that very much, but I will mention that if he ever does come to help me look at a car.

[jcocking]

Sorry Jeff you maybe wrong or just forgotten as I saw an email that you actually sent to PLUS2's sister a Mrs Bucknall who personally also made a complaint to you about the post as her children always followed their uncle with his various sports cars and he apperaed to encourage them to think of the solutions to various forum questions asked as they appear to have a lot of classic cars and aeroplanes and come from a family of automotive manufacturing.....indeed what was the largest UK component supplier to the automotive industry was a family business when I checked his background. The children are teenagers and been brought up on automotive interests so can hardly be kept off websites as I recall your response suggested it was her fault for not applying parental guidance, you just advised that they should perhaps not be looking in on the website.

So please don't say you only acted on the post when you were just recently advised as that is simply not what would appear from dates/period of the emails which I am sure was dated around late 2014 sometime.. Sadly as I did not get to buy his car I do not have the history file which in there was actually documented when I first viewed with copies of all what he had posted too.

I am sure had Plus2 still been around on the forum he would have thanked you for removing the content. As for me, like you I don't want to spend anymore time on this particular subject as I don't have any other details.

If the suggestion is PLUS2 may have faked some documents, I doubt that very much, but I will mention that if he ever does come to help me look at a car.

And once again, spouting off half truths and making up stories in your head.

1. Plus2 has never had his membership revoked. His credentials are still valid and he could log in right now.
2. A Mrs. Bucknall did contact me concerning language on the website on October 21, 2014. There was never any references to a specific post. Here is correspondence that occurred.

• Received notification of bad language on the website on 10/21/2014 from Mrs Bucknall.

  Mr. Cocking I am amazed how you can allow such bad language to be used on your forum that that my children can access through facebook and get exposed to it just because they are interested in Lotus cars. Internet sites like yours should be correctly moderated and as a Christian if you have any decency look to put a stop to it and get it removed. A very concerned parent.

• Responded back to her within 4 hours. I requested her to provide an example off what she was referencing. Below is my email to her.

  Thank you for your email notification of bad language on the LotusElan.net forums. Can you provide examples of the language you are referring to? Please provide links to the language you have concerns about.
  
  As a parent, I hope you are actively engaged with the internet browsing with your children.

• Mrs. Bucknall responded on 10/22/2014 without providing specific links. She only stated it had something to do with a Lotus 49 and Graham Hill.

  Mr Cocking, Thank you for your response, re the bad language used on your forum. Yes I do exercise control, as best possible, with my children and have certain site restricted parental control capabilities set up. My sons are Formula 1 fans and particularly Lotus F1. Their search entailed a look for some history whilst researching the Lotus 49 for a school project so I believe they entered something like Lotus_BRM_G.HILL or something to that effect. Perhaps you have a member Graham Hill or ghill for short. I possibly can arrange my husband to check something he has done before in the cache files to establish more, but I really did not want to involve him at this moment in time. I am not prepared to type the wordings I recall used but will say the f word was used repeatedly. I would trust your site has some control equally as a parent. I accept we try to do our best to prevent children being exposed to obscenities and if not at least some rules or agreement with activists not to use bad language is stated in your guidelines.

• A search of Lotus 49 and Graham Hill was made without finding anything. A search of the f word was made without finding anything. At the time we had 198,700 posts. With the info provided, we were not able to find the posts she was referencing.

If any of the following had occurred:

• If Mrs. Bucknall would have provided a specific link to the concerns, it would have been dealt with.
• If Mrs. Bucknall had indicated it was a post related to a family member and provided the username, it would have been dealt with.
• If Plus2 had reported the incident, it would have been dealt with.
• If you had reported the post, it would have been dealt with.

There is a long list of Ifs.....

The reality of the situation:

• It was a post that had unacceptable behavior.
• People talked about it, but did not provide any actionable info about it.
• People (yourself) decided to build a conspiracy theory in your mind instead of realizing that occasionally, moderators miss things.
• Instead of helping the community be a better place, you are creating animosity with a belligerent attitude.
• You should have been banned for your initial actions, but I showed you mercy since you were a new member.
• I have tried to work with you, but even my patience is wearing thin.

But you are not interested in the facts. You are only interested in the story in your head that has nothing to do with reality.

[Wickey]

Oh dear............

Just two very simple queries Jeff............on reading the email from the lady in your post it clearly refers to a member GHILL...quote Perhaps you have a member Graham Hill or ghill for short..unquote..I put that in your own forum search engine and got the post straight away although it has now become restricted it appears second on the list so not sure why you would not have been able to easily find it back then as GHILL had only made a couple of posts by the look of it from the dates. I actually copied the whole thread prior to it becoming restricted so can see from the short precise in the search it was the one.

Second point is a simple yes or no answer please..............are you denying you sent PLUS2 a communication email probably a couple of months ago now advising him as he had not logged on for two years his profile and membership would cease or something to that effect that he would then no longer be able to log in.

[RichardS]

Jeff
I haven't posted for a while but still visit regularly. The site has been invaluable to me and I am sure to 99% of the other members. I am really not interested in the petty squabbling that goes on from time to time and this thread is beating them all!
You do a fantastic job at keeping the site going through thick and thin.
I would suggest following your own mantra and spending more time on your Lotus rather than wasting time justifying yourself to people who should be spending more time on their Elans rather than being tiresome, petty and argumentative.
Why don't you just be dictatorial and just delete/ban the tiny minority who have nothing better to do than bully and rant?
Let's all concentrate on what the site is all about - helpful, friendly advice on keeping our Elans going.
Here endeth the lesson!
Richard

[jcocking]

Oh dear............

Second point is a simple yes or no answer please..............are you denying you sent PLUS2 a communication email probably a couple of months ago now advising him as he had not logged on for two years his profile and membership would cease or something to that effect that he would then no longer be able to log in.

I would hope you are old enough to realize looking at something after it has happened is easy. We call it Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

if it will help you I missed the post. I'm just a idiot. I am not worthy of your expectations. I hope your life can move on with my admittance of total failure. Maybe someday I will be able to run a successful forum that people will want to come and spend time at. Please keep me in your prayers, that some day I will not be such an idiot.

Secondly, sorry to bust your conspiracy theories, but we sent out a form email to about 500 users who had not logged on in the last year. It is part of a database clean up project to speed up the website.

Now back to the real world and not living in your make believe world.

[englishmaninwales]

I rarely get further than the tech / for sale forums above.....I think I'll go away again.
Malcolm

[KevJ+2]

Hold on Malcolm....I'll come with you, this is doing my head in

[jcocking]

You are not alone. I have been shaking my head for several hours. Some day I will learn that logic and facts will never overcome emotional bias.