S3 for £17,500 - scam?

[JonB]

One to watch perhaps - if the guide price is anything to go by.

https://www.brightwells.com/timed-sale/5532/lot/731462

[trw99]

Was at auction in June 2022. Description then: 06.22 at auction the Market: An unrestored but impeccably maintained car that has been in the same ownership since 1984, this French Blue Elan S4 SE is so original that it even sits on its factory chassis. The good news continues with the fact that it it’s a ‘matching numbers’ car with the paperwork, engine and chassis numbers all agreeing. Nice. Appropriately enough for a Lotus of this colour, this UK-registered car has recently been driven back from France where it has been in storage for the last quarter of a century. But please don’t think it was just sitting there abandoned because nothing could be further from the truth: it was stored in a dry garage, under a dust cover, and rested on a set of spare wheels. It was roused from its slumber in April 2022 to undergo an extensive recommissioning process followed by a “spirited” 400-mile shakedown back to the UK, which unearthed a few minor issues, all of which were resolved. While it has never had a full restoration, the Elan has seen a comprehensive programme of work over the years (details in a later section) and it is said to have done “less than a few than a few thousand miles since much of this work was carried out.” It’s important to note that this ongoing maintenance means that the patina it proudly wears is essentially that of an unrestored car, which we like; after all, a car is only original once.

Tim

[trw99]

By the way, you do not have to restore every Elan, as some of the previous posts appear to imply. Get them running, by all means, of course. The more classic Elans on the road, the better.

This years Pebble Beach overall winner was an unrestored, original paint with matching patina Bugatti. It looked and sounded glorious.

My own Sprint has original paintwork, original chassis, original everything (well, almost!), a lovely patina including bashes, chips, scratches, crazing. It's ownership provenance and all MoTs and tax discs, along with invoices fill a big file. But it is mechanically on the button and provides me with 3,000 miles of wonderful driving pleasure each year. Yes, it had an engine rebuild at 80,000 miles and a gearbox overhaul; it's electrics play up occasionally and I enjoy tinkering with it, keeping it as it is.

I know, we are all different. Some of us love the driving. Some of us love the restoration process and others like showing off their pristine car. All fine by me. However, I feel we should be encouraging new potential owners to consider other courses rather than just the resto way. After all, we don't wish to put them off because a car might need a respray and that costs crazy money at Option 1 or whoever. Embrace the oily rag!

Tim

[Spyder fan]

Here's what ChatGPT thinks about unrestored classics, I think it's qute apt.

The Joy of Wrecks
There’s something magical about an old car that hasn’t been touched for years. Rust creeping over the fenders, the seats cracked and faded, a faint whiff of gasoline and time. To many, it’s just a junk heap, but to a select group of car enthusiasts, it’s a treasure—perfect just the way it is. Why? Because there’s a joy in the wreck.

For these people, the appeal lies in authenticity. An untouched car tells stories. Each dent, scratch, and patch of rust is a chapter in its history, a glimpse into the lives it’s lived. A restored car may shine like new, but it loses the patina of time, the character that only age can give. An original car is like a piece of rolling history—a time capsule that connects the present to the past.

The quirks and imperfections of these vehicles are part of their charm. Maybe the door creaks when it opens, or the engine takes a few extra cranks to roar to life, but that’s what makes the experience real. It’s not about the car performing flawlessly; it’s about the connection you feel with something that’s seen the world, aged gracefully (or not), and still has life in it. It’s a bit like loving an old, tattered book. Sure, you could get a shiny reprint, but it just wouldn’t feel the same.

There’s also a sense of pride in owning something that’s survived. Driving a fully restored classic is nice, but anyone can do that. Driving an original wreck is a badge of honor—it says, "This car has made it this far, and so have I."

In a world obsessed with perfection and the new, the love for these weathered, imperfect machines reminds us that beauty isn’t always about polish. Sometimes, it’s about embracing the scars and celebrating the journey. And that’s the joy of wrecks.

[pharriso]

Alan, wow... that's really good & so true.

[Sadbrewer]

Alan, wow... that's really good & so true.

The other beauty of an original find is that enthusiastic, well meaning but limited amateurs probably haven't had their hands on it, butchering wiring systems , playing about with carburettors etc.

[trw99]

I’ve always felt that we are drawn to barn finds because we imagine what we would do to it. Full resto, just get it running or whatever.

A Lamborghini Miura was recently released from having been bricked up by its first Italian owner (goodness knows why), in perfect condition. I believe he drove it around for twenty odd thousand kilometres then shut it away.

I understand that it will be kept as is. Probably a bit of a museum piece now.

Tim

[tonyabacus]

All the above comments can be encapsulated in the phrase, "Its only original once".
Too many Elans and other cars have been restored better than when they left the factory and are often judged at shows by people who were not even born when a model was introduced, so how do they know what was fitted at the time of production.

Lotus as we know built cars with what they had in the parts bin at the time, which is why sometimes two cars coming off the line after one another may have slight variations. But that has always been the case with car and for that matter motorcycle makers since their invention. What value cheque book restorations if you dare not drive it.
Tony

[elans3]

If the engine is tired, add another £5500 / 6000, then there's the gearbox, then maybe the diff, etc etc.[/quote]

I think it's cheap for a running car. I agree with your point about overpriced restos sitting in dealers; I think that's always been the case. However this isn't like that. You could buy it and just run it for now and save the resto for later. I mean, it's not going to rust is it? As to the engine, well in one of the pictures it is clearly running albeit with a high tickover of 1500-odd RPM, and we can see the oil pressure at ~60 PSI which I think is a good indicator of engine health. Obviously we can't hear how it sounds or check the exhaust for blue smoke but I think it's promising. When I bought my S4 a while back it was the cheapest car on the market at £16500 and a non runner. So in comparison this would have been a better deal (if we ignore the non original aspects of this car, as mine is virtually untouched since leaving Hethel). Both cars need a respray and a body off restoration, but at least with this one you could drive it for a while, just to get a feel for it. I had no chance with mine, because the brake calipers were in the boot and the manifold rusted out. As I found out when I managed to start it... my poor ears..[/quote]

I take your point, but for me, (and a lot of others by the fact that it's not sold yet), it's still too expensive.
Your comment about the engine oil pressure alerted me. too. (I saw the pic aswell). It obviously has a HP oil pump, as if not, it would be sat between 35 & 40 psi , hot or cold at 1500rpm. Every car I've bought with a HP oil pump, I've changed back to a standard one. The engine doesn't need pressure like that. However, every one of the three that I've had like that, have shown more than 60psi when cold, and around 65 when hot at similar revs. I know it's subjective, but didn't fill me with confidence. Plus it only tells you what the crank & bearings are like anyway.
For me, with maybe 6 or 7 years left playing with classic cars (please God), I need a car that suits me condition-wise, and isn't going to cost me more than it's likely to be worth, when finished to my satisfaction.
Again, subjective, but we all have different aspirations. I'd rather pay more and have less to sort out.
At the current price "finished" for me it could end up a fair bit more than a really good example is worth today.
It will sell, I'm sure, and would make someone a nice car when finished, and 15 years ago, I would probably have taken it on if it had been a little bit cheaper, but it just doesn't suit what I'm looking for at this period of my life.

[mjbeanie]

Is there any way those tail lenses could be factory original? Oddly enough my neighbor bought a 66 S3 FHC and has an S4 composite rear boot structure with those lenses installed.

[trw99]

Highly unlikely. Bear in mind that our cars are of an age that any PO may have made - sometimes very good - changes to update the car during their ownership.

Any conclusions about factory originality using those changes as evidence would be incorrect, surely.

I have studied contemporary photographs and dates for the introduction of various items over many years. Whilst we know Lotus made running changes during production, or used up old items after the introduction of new ones, or changed minor items without publicising them, a considerably major change, such as a new rear light cluster, would have tended to be introduced alongside other major changes, such as body shape, as indeed they were with the Series 4.

If we look at the SS Elan, that was declared a separate version for the North American market (though some changes also found their way onto some Domestic market cars at the time), the changes were small and I have detailed them here before.

Tim

[elans3]

Agree Tim. My last S3 S/E with some SS features, was in fact registered slightly after the DHC in question, and also a slightly later chassis/vin number. My car had the "Vauxhall" rear lights as per all other S3's.