New member - race & 26R questions

[Edmundo2]

Hi.

I'm a long time lurker on here and have recently been contemplating going racing.

I spent 10 years hillclimbing and sprinting single seaters up until 2019. Since then I have owned a Freestyle Caterham and currently an Evora 410 but tbh road cars aren't able to provide the same level of satisfaction that competition does.

Therefore I'm contemplating going racing with a friend in some sort of shared drive classic series and starting to contemplate what car to plump for. All sorts have crossed my mind from Hillman Imp to Mustang but I've always loved Elans.

My budget isn't vast but the shared drive/ownership will help and so I'm starting to search around and wondered if anyone knows this car?

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Detai ... ar-project

It seems quite good value but I'm very aware that it could need plenty of time and money still spending on it bearing in mind it comes with just a short block, needs paint, exhaust, wiring, plumbing etc etc..

I'm also kind of aware that originality, chassis numbers etc is a mine field and that plenty of cars masquerade as other things and I'm not an officianado so not sure what value 26r replicas fetch vs period 26r's?

I've not got as far as looking at import duties etc but just wondered what people's thoughts were on the project as a base for a race car that would run in CSCC, HSCC type series rather than FIA events?

Also one other question is - what is the tallest driver that could be accomodated in a seat on runners? The chap I'd share with is about 6'4 so not only would he need to fit but if sharing the drive I'd need to be able to slide the seat forward at change over as I'm 6ft.

It might all be a bit far fetched but like many other people on here the thought of something 26r like really grabs me.

Thanks for any advice, ( even if it is sobering ).

Ed

[Frogelan]

Welcome to the Forum.

With respect to "26R" cars, the best practice is to use this expression for the genuine cars with appropriate chassis plates and documentation.

An upgraded S1 or S2 is best termed a "GTS" as in the class "GTS 10". Closer inspection of the 127 papers shows that the "Racing" variety is a catalogue of "go faster" parts not dissimilar to the period efforts of BMC.

Although the FIA list the "racing modification catalogue" as "historic evidence", the FIA and various organisers also exclude some items and include others by offering alternative interpretations as to what is "legal".

For the chassis numbers, the vendor can probably provide a certificate of provenance. In period there were several body combinations (excluding Shapecraft and one offs in period) for the "Racing" version with variations body widths, headlamp types, bumpers and two chassis types. One day I will ask Eddie Thompson to catalogue this!

With respect to your project, the sobering part is really dependant on the type of project you are considering and more importantly how much you are planning to do yourself. Not surprisingly, engines and transmissions are expensive.

Some folks go for the bare minimum (cheque book parts approach and say 300 hours of assembly excluding paint prep), others for very highly prepared "BTCC" finishes and a few anoraks like myself opt for an originalist approach with invisible improvements (perhaps 300 hours of assembly, but thousands of hours of research)!

When looking at this project, there will probably be some bargain parts but there are also many specialised parts to find. This is not completely catalogued by the vendor and

This is part of the "Easter Egg hunt" nature of the car. Some parts will take time to find or have made. As a guess in terms of time, perhaps 25-30% of the work and cost has been covered here. Reminder: cost, price and value are not the same concepts.

I believe the import duties are 5% for old cars and parts into GB. I hope this helps!

[Andy8421]

I went through this process a number of years ago.

I spent a summer going to CSCC and HSCC meetings, watching the racing, looking at the cars and speaking with the drivers. I eventually chose the HSCC 'Historic Roadsports' series - I liked the cars, it recreated the club racing scene I was looking for and the drivers all seemed decent guys. There were one or two 'gentlemen drivers' who showed up to find their cars warmed up and with the bonnet polished, but most were like me, owner drivers racing on a budget. The HSCC spec allowed me to race in other championships - the CSCC had a couple of similar championships I was eligible for. The cars had to be (just) road legal, which made testing the car prior to a race on the public roads possible - which was helpful.

I stayed away from GTS spec cars as the competition level, speeds and costs were all above my appetite. I had a young family, and could only justify a certain level of nonsense in my life.

Cost is driven in part by how competitive you want to be. I was at the Goodwood members day earlier this year where there was a Lotus Cortina race. I spoke to a number of the drivers, all who had used Neil Brown Engineering as their engine builder. £25K++ for a competitive race engine, and you have to supply the engine. Even when I was racing at a lower level it was prudent to have an annual 'refresh' of the engine, crack test, measure everything, replace anything worn. I used to budget £5K a season for an engine refresh if nothing went wrong, and that was 20 years ago.

Others on here will have a better and more up to date idea than me, but my guess is the purchase price of the car you have linked to will be dwarfed by other costs if you want to be competitive in a GTS eligible series.

Good luck.

Edit: I should have added I am 5ft 8in, and with my helmet on there isn't a lot of clearance between the top of the helmet and the roof - though it all depends on the seat you choose and the angle you sit at.

[Frogelan]

Andy's comments are very fair.

Don't tell HMRC or the future PM, Mr Starmer, but many of these gentlemen using several engines per season are passing these off as "PR expenses". These are engines revved to 9000 rpm

Job number one is to define precisely what you want to do.

[rgh0]

Racing costs can be kept reasonable with some sensible choices on how you stress you car. Limit the peak revs to under 8500 rpm and design the engine right and you will get much more than one season out of it. The same with the gearbox and a little sympathy when changing.

The reality is that driver skill is much much more important than the last 10 hp possible out of the engine or the last microsecond reduction in gear change times.

cheers
Rohan

[Edmundo2]

Hi All. Many thanks for the excellent responses to what I know was a pretty open/vague set of questions..

On reflection I think the project I linked to deserves to be finished to the right 26r/GTS spec and so if its price does reflect the fact it needs another £60k spending on it then its probably not for me..

A well specced Sprint might fit the bill but it sounds like headroom could be an issue for my friend that would share..

I'll think on but think we me test the water with an Imp and then if it pans out look to something more exotic in the future.., ( although I have seen a nice Marcos Mantis GT3 ).

In the meantime I'll keep my eye out on here just in case something really suitable pops up.

Thanks,

Ed

[Frogelan]

Evening

I think that you need to put in the time to audit what is for sale. In addition, it is not essential to keep up with the Btcc folks.

It also depends on your level of mechanical skills.

This is why the definition of the project is important imho.

Good Luck!

[Edmundo2]

Hi. Yes I appreciate it would need a lot more investigation but it looks like it deserves a high spec build so if it requires a further £60k then it's out of my league unfortunately so I think I'll leave it. Hopefully somebody else picks it up and does it justice..

Thanks, Ed