Lotus Elan

26/R: the quest

PostPost by: tuco » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:43 am

john1180 wrote:I wouldn't buy a 26r without Tony Thompsons approval of the provenance, to much money to risk it! Check with him to see if he knows any legit cars for sale.


It is a Wise advice
thx
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PostPost by: tuco » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:50 am

pharriso wrote:
tuco wrote:i just raced for the first time in my life a Big healey at the 4 hours in donington...........


So you've just started racing & you want to take a car worth over GBP100,000 on the track?

You either have a lot of money or a big pair of balls. :mrgreen:

I started racing about 4 years ago in a series called "24 hours of lemons" & have also done SVRA. Even now I would not want to race a 26R in anger. In racing their are few rules, you risk losing the car every race either due to your or someone else's bad luck or lack of skill.

Just saying...


I have been racing for now 10 years
started in GT3 series on a 996 GT3CS MKII
2 won , 1 in dijon in 2008, 1 in Magny cours in 2010
Won tour auto overall competion in 2008 on cobra
Have particpated 6 times at the tour auto with 8 stages best times on my e type , finishes one time 5th, one time 4th, and 3rd overall competition in 2013
raced 3 times le mans classic, best result 5th overall on my E type
and 6 partial season in sixties endurance......

:wink:
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:36 am

Do the sanctioning bodies in which you compete, require genuine cars?

Edit: 'Genuine' is the wrong word here :D I meant cars that left the 'factory' as race cars or have
substantial provenance as race cars.
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PostPost by: tuco » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:54 am

gjz30075 wrote:Do the sanctioning bodies in which you compete, require genuine cars?

Edit: 'Genuine' is the wrong word here :D I meant cars that left the 'factory' as race cars or have
substantial provenance as race cars.


yes, especially for Elan
For cobras, Etype Bizzarini healey mgb 911 they accept street cars converted into race cars , if they are compliance with annex k FIA, but for Elan they want genuine 26r..... A pain
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PostPost by: Peter +2 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:59 am

As said before Tony Thompson is a very good source for advice. Also there is Paul Toomes an Ex GTS racer in the UK HRS series. You may be able to contact him on this forum and I imagine he may also know a few things about 26R's and eligibility.



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PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:40 pm

Well Taco not to tell you your business But Lotus cars are so minimal and high mainainance that I would never race one .they are enough trouble for just an occasional sports car for the road ..this after 30 years racing SCCA and CASC driving .II got mine from an ad in the paper as a retirement project . You will find people who stood beside one in 1967 and claim expertise and or sell with them and just want your dough .Really the cars are. Junk they were built for maximum profit with minimum cost and that spells DNF , big crashes and pain or worse .It was said the best Lotus drivers were completely devoid of any engineering knowledge . They were paid to take a chance in a Lotus .There are many far better and more reliable cars to race but if you want the risk of being crippled or worse be my guest ..and your form of racing is suposed to be fun and constant attention to the car means all your time will be spent working on the car . like all one marque groups they blindly worship ??[watch the BS roll now] but its your money your body and your life ?..Ed
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash
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PostPost by: tuco » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:05 pm

twincamman wrote:Well Taco not to tell you your business But Lotus cars are so minimal and high mainainance that I would never race one .they are enough trouble for just an occasional sports car for the road ..this after 30 years racing SCCA and CASC driving .II got mine from an ad in the paper as a retirement project . You will find people who stood beside one in 1967 and claim expertise and or sell with them and just want your dough .Really the cars are. Junk they were built for maximum profit with minimum cost and that spells DNF , big crashes and pain or worse .It was said the best Lotus drivers were completely devoid of any engineering knowledge . They were paid to take a chance in a Lotus .There are many far better and more reliable cars to race but if you want the risk of being crippled or worse be my guest ..and your form of racing is suposed to be fun and constant attention to the car means all your time will be spent working on the car . like all one marque groups they blindly worship ??[watch the BS roll now] but its your money your body and your life ?..Ed



Interesting thoughts, thx sharing.
to be honest all racing cars i drove and guys i know raced are high maintenance.
Cobras Gt350 etc....
My former E type with a 365 HP regular engine needs maintenance every 20 hours
The cars are now so developped, they are all 10% to 15% more powerfull and lighter than racecars in periods.
The only solution doing historical racing is either you are Lord March, or you have sponsors :wink: (and i am not lord March)
My 2p
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PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:09 pm

OK enjoy
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash
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PostPost by: tuco » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:11 pm

Peter +2 wrote:As said before Tony Thompson is a very good source for advice. Also there is Paul Toomes an Ex GTS racer in the UK HRS series. You may be able to contact him on this forum and I imagine he may also know a few things about 26R's and eligibility.



Peter

Thx peter
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PostPost by: tvacc » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:36 pm

Twincaman says a few things. Some are true and some are just plain not true.

Yes, an Elan or any twincam motor is quite a bit of maintenance. But really any race car is if want to remain competitive. So I don't see what the difference, maintenance is between an Elan and any other race car other than maybe a Formula Ford or a VW series type of Formula which may be a bit cheaper to run.

I really disagree with is description of the race drivers that raced for Lotus and I know that this is not what the topic is about really and that I am sure he is just baiting all of us to respond.

But it should be said that Clark, Andretti, Rindt, Hill, (the list can go on) were hardly just dumb drivers with no engineering knowledge. That was just a dumb statement. They were drivers that wanted to win and Lotus provided one of the ways to do it at the time. Drivers went where they had rides. And most were fully aware of the design philosophy of Colin Chapman. Certainly Rindt and Andretti were as they wrote about it or spoke about it over the years.

Personally I think that to own a 26R and not race it is a waste of the car. The car was meant to track and if you can afford to own one, then you should be able to afford to track it. I don't agree with my friend that does not race his. But it is his money and his thought that he does not want to risk part of Lotus history. I respectively disagree with him and he is one of my best friends if not my best friend. But that is what best friends do. Respectively disagree with each other. I could have bought the Jackie Oliver car I worked on in college for $5000 back in 1980. Had I done so, I probably would still be tracking it,
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PostPost by: EnfoKen » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:51 pm

I assume you are referring to the car at Naito in Japan.

http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/20 ... =1&ret=202

While I looked at this car a few years ago, I cannot say if its a real 26R or not. To me it seemed
genuine and had many details that indicated it was.

A good colleague of mine has purchased several high end Porsches from them with great success.

Good luck.
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PostPost by: tuco » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:54 pm

Interesting story especially the last part :wink:
I am not a car fan, i mean i do not venerate the car as an object, even if i desire some more than others because their shape awake a desire in me.
But beside everything i love racing and choose the car because of its efficiency (after the price of course :lol: )
i raced in rally 2 R5 turbo back in 2000: these car were ground-ground rockets
when i turn to historic racing in order to choose a car , i started scrutinize results
front runners were cobras and gt40 and then e types and elan.
i choose the etype because of its efficeincy, and i must say, i 'd never been not disappointed.
I bought former Jon Minshaw's car (may be some of you knows him), at the end of a race he finished second overall 10 sec behind Caron's cobra. put it on my trialer and go back home
i have raced this car for 7 years in more than 30 events.
when i started racing this car back in 2008 there were barely 4 e types racing in events i was taking part ( peter auto series) and may 5 to 6 in Master's series and GTSCC.
This year at the Spa classic there were 14 of them...... This is why idecided to sell it: E types in historic racing is the goodwin point.....
The funny thing is that there is only 2 ?lans racing in sixties endurance, 2 originals: 1 shapecraft and one 26r
I want to be the third one and to beat e types and cobras with it.
here is my goal
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PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:59 pm

A Trabant would be a better choice to vintage race than a Lotus ?Im not talking about the twin cam or the tranny , that is Ford and very robust its all the other cobbled bits that bend spindle and mutilate. the cobbled up spitfire street car (}GT6 in a 26r racer car } running gear the chassis so prone to twist and bend under race stresses..having to replace all the stove bolt nuts and bolts with grade 8 stuff the fact that in a crash your body job is to protect the chassis ,,the crushed left lower foot and leg as the tire and wheel and what ever is attached enters the driver foot well ..chassis mounts pulling off and more ?all witnessed in my time on track . and the driver quote I believe came from Rob Walker after the tragic fire that took Ronnie Petersons life ?.Im not that eloquent ..and fwiw the designation 26R is just the drawing blueprint Lotus office designation of all elans ] just a dog bone for all the ?experts?]..edi
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash
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PostPost by: tvacc » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:26 pm

I am afraid we all do things that can hurt us. Driving an Elan or a Caterham (which are the two items I have tracked) is certainly more dangerous than driving just about anything else except maybe a formula car.

But that is life. If we stopped doing things because they are more dangerous than sitting home on the couch watching others do dangerous things, my gosh, life would certainly be boring.

Money is a relative thing. Probably the most relative thing we have. To some losing a 10K car is devastating and a financial blow to which they could not recover. To others losing a $250K car is like dropping a dollar on the street.

But that is what makes life interesting, isn't it? And bantering about on a Thursday afternoon with friends from all over the world, that is interesting as well. No hard feelings I hope Ed, I knew who the quote was from, at least I had it narrowed down between 2 Formula 1 writers from the day. That is why I said something. Walker would be the one that said it probably. But I think he was jealous of Chapman and his success as a designer. But I am probably wrong as I was just a youngster then.
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99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:33 pm

Id take my 7 anywhere ,,.you just have to drive it like motorcycle very defensivley ,really careful with 18 wheelers around and some who pass for drivers on the NY Truway and 4 number roads here and with RHD look long and hard before passing ?the Europa is more scary with all the limited visability , Of all the cars the Europa is more of a formula car for the street ,,,and trust me my life has been far from boreing im just paying the price now :lol: :lol: but the good thing is the government health plan pays for the Cannibus forthe pain :D and I presume your ?drive fast take chances' mantra refers only to the race track.ed
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