Lotus Elan

S3 Elan Coupe

PostPost by: bblanckley » Mon May 13, 2013 3:36 am

Know what's it's like to get the body stripped and restored, a lot of hard work has been done. But what a beauty after it is completed and all those crazy lines a thing of the past.

Great job
Bruce
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PostPost by: tonyabacus » Mon May 13, 2013 9:37 pm

Nice job Vernon, good eye to detail, love to see a couple of pictures of the Ginetta, been involved with them since '68 and currently have G12 waitng for attention, usual problem not enough time.

Love the colour, do you have name and code, might use it on the G12
Tony
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PostPost by: nkat » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:50 pm

Vernon, it looks lovely. I am green.

Could you post a bit more about the aircon installation, please? What did you do, which parts from where and how did you integrate it?

Many thanks,

Nigel.
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PostPost by: tucsoncapriracer » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:52 pm

Have you started the motor yet with the sump tank in the passenger foot well? I had a race car with the sump in the rear passenger area as far aft as I could get it. It was great in the winter. It acted as a nice heater. However when summer hit I realized it was the dumbest thing I ever did. Think 100F outside temp, add +250F oil temp acting as a big heater and it was almost unbearable. I don't see how you will be able to handle any amount of summer heat even with your AC going full blast. I hope you plan to insulate and add a bulkhead around the can. then you will have no leg room. I saw Jay do this and could not believe it. Good luck with that interior heater.
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PostPost by: 65ginetta » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:06 am

I appreciate your concern, fortunately I am a professional engineer and have some considerable experience of dealing with the insulation of high temperature environments. The Dry sump tank is in fact mounted on and surrounded by a polyester/mineral insulated non woven material. This material is then coated with a continuous filament glass fiber air laid material with an aluminum reflective substrate. Typically this technology will provide a reliable temperature delta of 120-150 degrees centigrade on a thickness of ??. The overall increase in weight is around 6 lbs and as I have explained the car is for my wife and strictly for her personal pleasure and not intended for racing. I think the extreme design principles of the Leno car are in no way comparable. Jacqui?s car is our personal refinement of the Lotus Elan concept whilst retaining the delicate and lightweight elegance of the original car.
Using best engineering practice, I mounted the tank in the front of the car close to the engine lubrication pumps to keep the oil lines short and minimize the risk of oil starvation at start-up and/or subsequent cavitation.
With reference to loss of foot well, with the passenger seat set full back, a 5? 10? slightly overweight male can sit quite comfortably.
The A/C is a project that Jacqui added to her original wish list and is proving quite a challenge. I do intend to produce a detailed photo report when completed in a couple of months.
I also have some experience of your oil tank engineering bad practice. My first 1966 Square Tube Ginetta G4 when I purchased it had a rear mounted oil tank which I assumed was for weight distribution but after relocating the tank in the front I saw no significant evidence of disrupting weight balance. When I restored my 1965 Round Tube G4 I located the oil tank in the front and am delighted with the handling and no risk of starvation, cavitation or frothing.
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PostPost by: knotnuts » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:24 pm

Vern, thanks for the 26R headlamp conversion. Brenda and I enjoyed our visit Saturday. Please post some pics of your Alpha. The Elan is coming along great! Best Regards, George
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PostPost by: tucsoncapriracer » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:01 am

Maybe
Last edited by tucsoncapriracer on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: tucsoncapriracer » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:33 am

Not to get into an engineering debate (thermal dynamics), but it takes air movement/exchange (in this case) to remove that heat. It has to go somewhere or it will continue to increase (an engine is a thermal device that produces heat). In your case you are forcing the engine cooling system and oil heat exchanger to do 100% of the job of cooling the oil, because you suggest you are using great insulating material. Even in a wet system the oil pan helps with cooling and air flow around the bottom of the engine increases this cooling. So either you will do a great job of protecting the interior from heat, and or increase the heat sink from the motor and force other systems to compensate, you don't ever get anything for free. As your profession suggest, I am sure you will insulate all the way around the tank and not force that reflected heat into the fiberglass body. If not the resin in the fiberglass body will get very brittle, 250+ over an extended period of time will take it toll on the body. It was not make with modern day, aerospace certified resins. As for your concern about start up starvation or frothing this requires engineering. The tank must be mounted at such an elevation so the pump is always primed. Not sure what size tank you used but on our race cars we use between 2 and 3 gallons, this does make a difference in both cross weight and front to rear balance, especially in a 2000# car. We also calculate the MOI and position items to keep this to a minimum, thus we don't like sitting heavy items in the front or in the trunk.
Anyway, it is a nice looking car and you are enjoying the build. I'm sure it will work out for you and your wife will enjoy your efforts.
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PostPost by: 65ginetta » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:36 pm

My explanation of the thermal properties of the oil tank insulation was in response to ?tuconcapriracer?s? assumption that I was creating a hostile and excessively high temperature interior environment. These technologies are widely used in aerospace and automotive applications and optimizing the insulation properties is an integral part of the design. The conduction and radiation heat loss systems of the engine remain unaffected by the oil tank insulation and I have in fact incorporated additional under bonnet cooling ducts and a 11 row oil cooler to optimize their function.

On the subject of optimized cooling systems, I have now completed the differential cooling duct installation. I'm not sure how effective this will be but it was worth effort during a complete rebuild. My intention is to subtly optimize the function and performance of the car in the most professional manner whilst retaining the original classic design intent of the vehicle.
Greenback-20130817-00730.jpg and

Greenback-20130818-00738.jpg and
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PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:45 pm

This is your wife's car right?

I don't know about diff cooling but my wife's preferred option was a DVD player & tv screens in the rear headrests to keep our 10 year old happy on long journeys.

Congrats, your car looks awesome!
Phil Harrison
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PostPost by: 65ginetta » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:37 am

I did say my wife was a Lotus fanatic, for her the volume control is under her right foot. Jacqui's other car
Jacqui's 41.JPG and
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PostPost by: Etienne 7 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:04 pm

Sweeeeet :D

A couple with taste, no doubt about that !

Keep posting please.

Etienne
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PostPost by: 65ginetta » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:17 pm

Fitted and adjusted bonnet to clear H711 long block. Also trial fitted Vitaloni California mirror to passenger door to ensure rear vision for 5' 6" woman driver. I have not built up revised window mechanism so tank taped the door in place, hence excessive door gap
Greenback-20130901-00752.jpg and
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PostPost by: stevebroad » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:02 am

Nice job!

The side duct has given me an idea for cooling my inboard dampers, which are mounted in front of and between the rear uprights, well out of the way of any cooling airflow. However, I think I will try a NACA duct as I reckon it will be less intrusive. Did you consider using one of these?
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PostPost by: 65ginetta » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:39 pm

Thanks for the kind comments, I did initially look at a NACA duct but I felt it needed to be further forward and more under the door. To get the correct aspect ratio for the duct there wasn't quite enough space due to the curvature of the sill.
If you put them under the floor I'm sure they would work well but also tend to pick up water if that would matter. I know your project is more radical than mine and you probably could stay our of the English rain if you know when its coming, why not come to Tennessee for the sun and I would welcome the stimulating company for my other project a Hayabusa Ginetta G4.
There is a really good web site for determining the duct dimensions for what you are trying to do and I'll go through my stuff and send you the link when I find it.
Cheers, Vernon.
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