Lotus Elan

I'm pickin' up bad vibrations

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:58 pm

StoatWithToast wrote:Just looked at the DHC for sale on Caslte's website - the rear is a good couple of inches higher on that car... I think my rear suspension needs sorting out too... Another one to add to the ever growing list :)

That car is sitting about an inch too high front and rear.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:58 am

Hmmm, think it could be that nut. It was really loose when we took it apart to change the seal. When we checked the manual to torque it back up though it only said something like 40ft-lbs to hold it... Considering the XI took 140 that seemed really low. We decided the book would know better than us, and that it was probably self-tightning (like the wheel spinners) too.


Dave,
I don't want to add to your woes but did you fit a new collapsible spacer on the pinion shaft ?
That torque figure is designed to achieve the correct pinion bearing pre-load with a new collapsible spacer. I think if you retorque to the specified figure with an already collapsed spacer there is a danger you may overload the pinion bearings. Also you say the pinion nut was loose - it should be staked after tightening to prevent it coming ondone.

Regards,
Roger
S4 DHC
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PostPost by: StoatWithToast » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:54 am

oldelanman wrote:Dave,
I don't want to add to your woes but did you fit a new collapsible spacer on the pinion shaft ?
That torque figure is designed to achieve the correct pinion bearing pre-load with a new collapsible spacer. I think if you retorque to the specified figure with an already collapsed spacer there is a danger you may overload the pinion bearings. Also you say the pinion nut was loose - it should be staked after tightening to prevent it coming ondone.

Regards,


Hmm, I thought I'd read on here that you didn't need a new spacer just for the seal :?
Now you've said it, I remember knocking the tab washer up for the nut.

Having driven the car from London to Sandy and back on Saturday (after a week of resting) I have noticed an odd pattern...

When I first got onto the M11 and got to speed it was pretty smooth. I've never had a wheel perfectly balanced and this new set is no different, but apart from a small amount of road wheel (I assume) vibration the car was very smooth. After a few miles the vibration started coming back. From the M11 we go across country to the A1. Back on the A1 and up to speed it was smooth again, but the vibration started coming back after a couple of roundabouts.

I noticed that getting up to speed and holding it means there's not much vibrations, but after slowing down (lifting off a little) a little the vibration starts to build up. This could be coincidental, but I'm starting to clutch at straws.

I now have a winter list (assuming I have found somewhere to house the XI to free up the garage):
Strip out all the interior.
Replace the carpets.
Sort out the dash surround.
Sort out the dash electrics & extra switches.
Sort out the sagging crash-pad.
Fix the door open switch.
Sort out under-bonnet electrics.
Fit new (probably poly) bushes all round.
Fit new suspension arms at rear.
Fit new dampers and springs all round.
Remove the mech' fuel pump (it is still in the fuel circuit after the garage fitted an electric one!).
Replace clutch.
Replace crank seals front and back.
Clean up wiring in the boot.
Replace all the brake discs.
Replace all the diff bearings.
Replace the wheel bearings.
Replace engine, gearbox and diff mounts.
Sort out the huge amount of oil leaking out of the gearbox when it's not flat (down the prop).
Get the geometry sorted.
Get the engine re-tuned (getting it done tomorrow, but expect it will be out again once the old fuel pump is removed).
Probably replace chassis (but given the cost of above, probably wait a while to do that).
Get the body blue-printed (ditto).

Hopefully one/some of those will end up fixing the vibration!
Dave
'06 Elise SportsRacer 111R
'72 Sprint FHC (and staying that way) - 0479
'65 XI Replica
[And a Subaru, but I don't think that counts ;)]
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:53 pm

Hmm, I thought I'd read on here that you didn't need a new spacer just for the seal :?


Hi Dave,
No you don't need to fit a new crush spacer unless you are changing the bearings but the point I was making was that the torque figure given for the pinion nut is what is required to crush a new spacer. If you don't fit a new spacer then you won't need to do the nut up that tight to achieve the correct bearing pre-load. It's the pre-load that's important and not the nut torque. Some set it by feel or you can make yourself a simple gauge to do it, it's a lot easier with the diff on the bench of course.

Best regards,
Attachments
Diff pinion preload setting 1a.JPG and
Roger
S4 DHC
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PostPost by: StoatWithToast » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:47 pm

I think we've found the problem!

We've taken the engine and gearbox out and the gearbox mounting rubber has been destroyed by the HP oil leaking onto it. We now have the prop out and it has been beaten about quite a bit, so I think the vibration at specific speeds was down the the prop bouncing on the broken mount.

We'll get the prop re balanced (the new UJs don't have grease nipples) and hopefully that will sort it out... Fingers crossed :)
Dave
'06 Elise SportsRacer 111R
'72 Sprint FHC (and staying that way) - 0479
'65 XI Replica
[And a Subaru, but I don't think that counts ;)]
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PostPost by: trw99 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:24 pm

Well done Dave!

And what about the rest of that list you gave yourself last autumn? :P

Tim

PS Good to cure those 'virations'!
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PostPost by: Famous Frank » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:12 pm

Dave, I know you don't want the expense but if for some reason you have to remove the donuts again, I would consider makeing the investment and going with a good set of CV's. I've had them on all of my Elans since the first set I made up in 1976 and I'll never use a donut again.

I hope it may only be one or so that might be reversed.

Famous Frank
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66 Elan S2 SE
65 Elan S2
66 Elan 26R
69 S2 Europa
06 Elise
67 Barracuda
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PostPost by: StoatWithToast » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:10 pm

Tim,

:) I only noticed the incorrect spelling once you pointed it out :D

So far it has mostly been mechanical: the front wishbones have been refurbished, new bushes, new steering rack, new TTR shocks and spring, new braided hoses, new pads, refurbed the callipers, the chassis has (almost) all been stripped and treated, the handbrake line replaced, the fuel line replaced (it was a mess of adapters), new fuel pump (because of the adapters), starting the gearbox refurbish, the engine is nearly finished being rebuilt and the carbs overhauled. (and breath!) I'm sure I've missed something, but you get the idea ;)

Next on the list is rear wishbones (1 to replace, 1 to clean up), new rear brake hoses, refurb the callipers, new pads, new TTR shocks and springs to go on, get the prop rebalanced and reinstalled, along with the gearbox and engine. Oh and the CV joints from MM arrived this morning (woo hoo)! Replacing most of the grommets as they are all shot, new clutch hose, clutch, slave cylinder, new Kenlow fan and new fluids.

The seatbelts, seats, and carpets will get a clean. The dash will probably stay as is, but the wiring will get re-done soon as it is very messy and been modified over time, it's ok, but I have no idea what is new and what is 40 years old.

So it has been a rather busy winter, but I now feel like we know the car well and we could take it on a cross-continent rally :)

Really looking forward to getting it back on the road (MOT and tax just ran out so I've had to declare it SORN until it's ready to go back on the road again)

As for the expense - as always I realised too late I should have set up a car restoration company to get all parts pre-tax and claim the VAT! I think we'd have saved a lot of money if we had done it that way. Oh well, I'll know for the next one ;)

Frank,

Yup, I've just received my CV conversion parts from Sue this morning. I'm looking forward to putting them on and feeling the difference.

Thanks :)
Dave
'06 Elise SportsRacer 111R
'72 Sprint FHC (and staying that way) - 0479
'65 XI Replica
[And a Subaru, but I don't think that counts ;)]
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:55 pm

So not much to do then? :wink:

Good move with the Miller shafts.
I'm wondering what GT40 purist-blokes are doing about their rubber doughnuts; I casually questioned a scrutineer at Le Mans Classic last year (in French) about homologation papers for "solid" drive-shafts on a car he had just "passed". He rolled his eyes :roll:, shrugged :| and pointed to a "continuation" car which was alongside and lined up to race with the "old" ones.
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PostPost by: StoatWithToast » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:52 pm

Thought I'd post a quick update - had most of July off working on the Elan, but the Gearbox is ready to go back on the engine, the rear end is almost finished (just got to fit the refurbished calipers), diff is in, rear shocks are in (what a pain!) and all four weels are back on the floor. Handbrake is reassembled with new cable, new speedo is in, new cold-start cable will be going in next weekend, ride height will be approximated so I can move the car about. Oil catch tank is ready to install and oil cooler placement is being sorted.

I did see some very neat 26Rs at Silverstone Classis, and have a hankering to do a remote reservoir setup like they all had for the hydraulics to free up some space.

New throttle cable will go in soon and then its engine in, setup suspension good enough to get it to a garage to set it up properly and get it's MOT.

Next year it's the interior and electrics, maybe get the body off to clean up the bits of the chassis we can't get to and get the body good as new :) A never ending list of jobs to do when I'd much rather have fun just driving it :)
Dave
'06 Elise SportsRacer 111R
'72 Sprint FHC (and staying that way) - 0479
'65 XI Replica
[And a Subaru, but I don't think that counts ;)]
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