Elan Buying Advice. Expert advice needed!

[marko]

Hi

This is my first post so Hi to all!

Having owned 2 Lotus in my 'younger' days (Elan +2 S130 & Europa S2) I am considering purchasing another for light use/investment. As I have been 'out of the loop' for some years now can anybody offer some advice/guidance on what to look for with an Elan S4 Sprint or S3SE in terms of values over the years, pitfalls when buying and where you might recommend obtaining such a car. And indeed if these would be your recommended models of choice. If not, what is...

I am not looking for a project but a complete, as near perfect/original car as possible to love and care for.

Having waited 20 years to be in a position to afford such a thing I want to make the right decision.

Thanks in advance.
Mark

[trw99]

Mark

Welcome and great to hear that you are in the market for an Elan. You will see from my website (below) that I am bound to recommend that you buy a Sprint! However I do acknowledge that any Elan will give much driving pleasure.

In terms of what to look for, I would suggest a pleasurable few hours reading through some of the posts on this forum. Now some ten years old, there is a great deal of information contained within these pages. In some ways, perhaps the time has come to collect certain threads in a FAQ section.

If you do not already belong to Club Lotus, I suggest you join and there are some regional clubs that can be helpful too. It is by asking around that you will most likely find a good and honest car that someone may be thinking of selling. Buying from a dealer, you will pay a premium and, whilst it may lead to a great car, your pockets will just need to be that little bit deeper! As with most marques, there are some dealers that you may be best advised to avoid too.

Once you have found a car you like, I suggest you post details on here, with photos. That way you can tap in to the knowledge of the forum, before you commit to purchase.

If you decide that you want to go for a Sprint, please do PM me.

Tim

[marko]

Hi Tim

Thanks for the reply. I have already discovered your web site. Very nice it is too!

I think the Sprint will be the one I will go for.

You mention that there are some dealers to avoid. I have trawled the web and found a couple of possibles, both from dealers. Perhaps you could let me know (PM if you prefer) who to be wary of so I dont get burned

Many thanks
Mark

[adigra]

Mark,

I certainly wouldn't discount buying from a dealer if you find the car and price you are happy with, just inspect the car thoroughly. When I was shopping for my car (and I wanted a restoration project) I ran into the problem of any car that looked promising being snapped up by a dealer before I could look at it and being turned around with a couple of thousands added. Echoing Tim's advice, some of the dealers, as well as some owners it must be said, take these tired cars and do a very quick "restoration" to make them look good for the short term, so it's important to be thorough when viewing a car.

My S3 S/E FHC shares the garage with a Sprint DHC (which I have driven as much as my own car) and from the driving seat there are only a few differences, aside from the roof, mostly in initial acceleration due to the diff ratios being different (the S3 is 3.55, the Sprint 3.77). The two cars would have to be on the same ratios before I could comment on outright performance, but it's safe to assume the Sprint would be quicker. By fitting Sprint cams to the S/E a lot of the performance gap can be closed though, without having to do anything else.

Regardless, I would honestly say that the biggest deciding factors between an S3, S4 and the Sprint would be down to personal preferences and the price. I personally prefer the look of the S3 (and FHC in particular) with the round wheelarches, smaller tail lights, the toggle switches on the dash, the beautiful S/E steering wheel, etc. But those very details which make it a purer shape in my eyes also are a nightmare to replace/source if they are missing. The tail lights alone, the chrome surrounds in particular, are rare and quite expensive, as well as very difficult to re-chrome. The steering wheel is also a hugely pricey item, even more so than the Chapman signed one on the Sprint/S4. Working manual variable speed wiper switch/pump same thing... So if you are after an original and complete car it's more cost effective to find one with the bits, such as the steering wheel and the round airbox, present even if the car needs some work, than to buy a "concourse" car with "upgrades". But if those details aren't as important, then the lack of those pieces can be a good bargaining point! Just remember, a decent S/E steering wheel can fetch up to ?800!

As for the values, I would say S4 coupe on Strombergs (another thing worth deciding on going into it) is the cheapest and the Sprint drophead the most expensive. Looking at the current prices there seems to be a gap of up to ?7000 between the two. I would say that the driving difference between them is certainly not worth ?7k, not even close, as the S4 on Strombergs is nearly as wonderful of a car as any Sprint, and if performance is the deciding factor, for a few thousand you can upgrade the S4 to any state of tune.

My personal favourite, unsurprisingly, the S3 S/E coupe. I think it's the purest form with the least compromise. But any Elan will be a joy, so I'd never say no to any of them.

Best,
Adi

[Leo Leentvaar]

Welcome to the forums Mark,
each of the 2 seater Elans have their own charm and following IMHO.
The best bit of advice I can give you, is to find some one that can give you expert advice before you empty your pockets and end up with a bit of a lemon.
So find a forum member who lives nearby or join a club and seek their advice and make joint visits, go to meets and talk to owners.
Secondly the "middle ground" buying field can be a bit of a quagmire. There's the top of bill class A restored cars and complete restoration projects.
The cars in between can be hard to discern a tarted up banger from a sound car needing some TLC.

In the past I stumbled upon an S4 here in Holland at a classic car dealer that he gladly offered for a spin despite the fact that the LH front turret of the suspension
was sheared and showing a 1/4 inch gap. Besides he wanted top money and said a we bit of welding should do the job. (Well, not with these cars!)

If you want a Sprint , ask Tim for details if you happen to stumble upon one. They come at a premium over an S4 and you need to be sure you're dealing with the
real McCoy in that case. There's some small details on a Sprint that may not be visible to the uninitiated. (for all you know it could be an S4 with a paint scheme)
Take your time Mark as you can spend the money only once.

[marko]

Hey Adi!

Thanks so much for your interest. I too really like the look of the S3 SE. It is definitely a lovely looking car. Thing is I do have to be a bit mercenary about it as well. If my Wife is going to sanction 30k on a car it is fair comment for her to want it to hold/improve it's value. For that reason my experience tells me that something that is as near to original with the minimum of mods, however much they improve the vehicle technically, is the best bet. Also I am a bit purist about stuff like that anyway. Why buy a 60s car if you stick 'better' 90s bits in it?

I must admit I am a bit concerned (not really the right word) though about availability. Dealers seem to be either asking very high proces or have a bit of a bad rep. And as you say, even the smallest of things can result in big expense/inconvenience (steering wheel, wiper switch etc.). I guess I just need to be patient. (not my strongest trait )

Many thanks
Mark

[marko]

If you want a Sprint , ask Tim for details if you happen to stumble upon one..

Thanks leo. I have already exchange emails with Tim and had some valuable advice. He sure knows his Sprint!

Best wishes
Mark

[bs982367]

Buying from a dealer, you will pay a premium and, whilst it may lead to a great car, your pockets will just need to be that little bit deeper! As with most marques, there are some dealers that you may be best advised to avoid too.

Hi,

Many thanks for your valuable comments. I have been told about some "horrible" stories about some secondhand dealers (even Lotus ones !).
How could we know more about the level of "seriousness" of the main resellers or dealers ?
Many thanks for your nice support.

[Heuer]

Paul Matty has a Peter Day restored Sprint DHC for sale at ?37k which is about as good as they get. He also has a FHC Sprint and an FHC S4 so maybe worth giving them a visit. I recently bought my S4 from there and the service has been superb.

[adigra]

Mark, I entirely agree about originality and keeping it in period. A huge deciding factor about my car was the fact that it was very original with all of the proper S/E bits present. Unfortunately due to damp damage I've had to take out the original seatbelts, but aside from that most things are as Lotus made them (some of them shockingly badly too!).

I have to say I agree about the availability. In the year since I bought my car there has been only a single other advertised which would've met my criteria, but even that was in a colour which would've been a deal breaker with my wife. Having said that, I was very specific in what I wanted, but I had to make a deal with a dealer before he acquired the car from the estate of a deceased PO and then had to wait a further 4 months. But S3 cars seem to be very thin on the ground.

Good Luck!

Adi

[marko]

Hi
thanks for the advice. That is good to know. PM are just up the road from me so I will take a look. Must admit though, 37k seems a bit steep compared to others currently in play. Perhas it is worth it?
Cheers
mark

[Heuer]

Depends what you want! If you want a perfect and totally original DHC Sprint (arguably one of the best in the world from a respected restorer) then the price is a fair reflection. If you just want a very good sorted DHC Sprint expect to pay ?25k - ?35k; if you want a usable driver then ?15k - ?20k. An FHC will be about ?5k cheaper across the board. Finding a genuine good one is another matter.

[Elanintheforest]

Mark, I've dealt with Paul Matty for 30 years, and have always found him to be straightforward and have great integrity. He sometimes gets it wrong, but he will stand by his product or service and sort it out properly if sorting is required.

You're right that ?37k is a lot of money for an Elan, but you would be getting one of the very best cars available anywhere for that sort of money. A professional restoration to that sort of standard by one of the two or three guys in the country who can do it that well would cost that much, but you'd have to provide the car first! The price is comparable with a new Lotus, which may put it in better perspective.

The chap who did the restoration on that Sprint, and David's (Heuer) car, was Peter Day, who is now retired. Not only was he a perfectionist, but he had also amassed a stock of new original parts that he used on his restorations. That has now all gone, in fact Paul Matty bought what was left of it, so in many ways the standard that Peter Day achieved is unrepeatable. As such, so long as they are looked after, they will hold their price better than any other restored Elan.

But it all depends what you want. You can, as others have said, get a very good car for ?15k - ?25k and have just as much fun with it, maybe more in that you may not worry so much leaving in the pub car park. With a car in that price range you can also justify fettling it to your standard, which for many is an integral part of Elan ownership.

But be careful in that price range, as there are some rouges out there...cars as well as sellers. This middle price range is where you could pick up a lovely original car that may have been standing for a while and needs a fair bit of renovation, which can be done cheaply enough by Paul. Or you could get a good solid running car perhaps needing a bit of cosmetic work. Or you could get one with a nice shiny paint job that turns out to be an absolute dog, and needs everything doing.

Go and have a look at Paul's cars and see what you can get for the different prices. He usually has a wide range of cars available. Leave your cheque book at home on the first visit, and remember that ?10k will only buy a project car nowadays. That means that ?12k isn't far off needing a full restoration.

As a ball park, a re-spray is ?7k, an engine re-build is ?4k and a chassis change with suspension and brake overhaul ?6k, but all the little bits and pieces do add up in terms of time and ???s to do.

Mark

[Heuer]

................................. in that you may not worry so much leaving in the pub car park.
Mark

We leave ours in the pub car park and nobody seems to bother about it. Young girls and kids adore it, adults smile at it and thieving twonks can't see the point!

[bs982367]

A few weeks ago, Paul Matty had one "nuts and bolts" restored S4SE - marine blue colour - zero miles since FULL restoration at 24.000 ?.
The car was sitting on its floor for more than 4 months.