FHC vs DHC/Roadster Values

[mopho]

You just have to commit to purchasing the fastest car available on a regular basis.

I've driven a few of those, not as much fun as the Elan (on the road at least)

[Frank Howard]

[/quote]Also, it's possible in 2027 cars may be slower due to the need for economy over performance[/quote]
Hey, not only do modern econoboxes out perform stock Elans, but they do it carrying 2 more passengers using less and cheaper fuel while at the same time putting out way less emissions!

[mopho]

Hey, not only do modern econoboxes out perform stock Elans, but they do it carrying 2 more passengers using less and cheaper fuel while at the same time putting out way less emissions!

My fast "econobox" (WRX) gets worse gas mileage than the Elan and still needs the expensive gas. Though, in a few weeks, my Elan will likely out perform it.

Ya got me on the emissions and passenger part though

[Frank Howard]

[/quote]And I object to your garage door transmitter, that is extra weight! [/quote]
Guys who are concerned about minimizing the weight go on diets. And guys who are really serious about minimizing the weight drive naked.

[mopho]

Guys who are concerned about minimizing the weight go on diets. And guys who are really serious about minimizing the weight drive naked.

That would explain why other drivers are always looking at me funny when I am in the car

[Frank Howard]

My fast "econobox" (WRX) gets worse gas mileage than the Elan and still needs the expensive gas. Though, in a few weeks, my Elan will likely out perform it.

Hey, wait a minute. Everyone knows the WRX and the EVO are at the top of the performance heap and they are not econoboxes at all. I'm talking about your typical Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Ford Focus etc. These cars in stock form will out perform a stock Elan.

[mopho]

Hey, wait a minute. Everyone knows the WRX and the EVO are at the top of the performance heap and they are not econoboxes at all. I'm talking about your typical Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Ford Focus etc. These cars in stock form will out perform a stock Elan.

WRX's and Evo's are just factory modified Econoboxes, so perhaps it would be fair to compare them to a modified Elan


I guess it depends on what test results you want to rely on for a stock Elan, I've read reports of a stock Sprint doing 0-60 in 6.6 sec, even if it is in the 7's that is quicker than the basic econobox cars you mention.

I've surprised a few modern sportscars (even some Elise owners), but usually corners are involved.

[Frank Howard]

I sure hope the rest of the group is enjoying this.

[mopho]

I sure hope the rest of the group is enjoying this.

Certainly more fun than the typical "how do I fix this" discussion

[msd1107]

Ahhh, the replies!

But lets look at what development Lotus did make to the Elan during its lifetime, and try to extrapolate what might have been if the car stayed in production.

First, lets look at tires. The Elan was introduced with 5.20-13 tires (21.6 in D, 961 rev/mile). It went through 145-13 (22.1, 939 rev/mile), 155-13 (22.8, 912 rev/mile), and the +2 used 165-13 (23.4, 887 rev/mile). We can hypothesize that, if the Elan had remained in production, we would have seen 175/70-13 (22.6, 917 rev/mile) or 185/70-13 (23.2, 893 rev/mile), and then 185/60-14 (22.7, 915 rev/mile, a size Spyder sells today), then 185/55-15 (23.0, 904 rev/mile), and finally 185 (or 195)/50-16 (23.3, 894 rev/mile)

Now, a 165-13 looks visibly larger in the wheel wells than the original 5.20-13, but Lotus did it. But 185/50-16, with appropriate wheels, are the same diameter and would look entirely appropriate under the Elans wheel wells. And the larger wheels would allow larger discs to stop the stickier rubber, but, again, who is going to be able to detect this, and Chapman would have transitioned the car this way anyway.

People have mentioned the generator to alternator conversion and the factory did this also. Also, the factory was cognizant of the need for a 5-speed transmission, which the Elan community is still trying to solve. Chapman probably would have looked at the reliability problems with the water pump and ditched it for a variable speed electric water pump. At the same time, he would have gotten rid of the radiator and replaced it with a light weight aluminum radiator in a form factor similar to the Scirrocco, pushed forward in the nose and with a variable speed fan for cooling.

I cannot agree with the statement that even if we modify our cars to be equal in performance with current cars, that in 20 years we will be blown in the weeds again. From an engineering point, I can see a development path over the next decade or so that will result in an Elan with performance at least equal to production cars of that future time, even if they continue to improve in performance.

It may take money, but if you take a look at the money people spend in depreciation buying new cars, then the cost of modifying our Elans is cheap at twice the price.

However. I think it is a truism that some high percentage of Elan owners are satisfied the the performance of their cars currently, and do not desire to go through the modification purgatory. And I think they are right. The performance of the stock Elan is more than sufficient for everyday activities.

But for those who are ceaselessly reaching for a higher level, there are many opportunities to do so.

David
1968 36/7988

[garyeanderson]

I took a time out yesterday and went for a drive in my much modified S2. I want to appologize for a few of the thing is wrote too. I don't think there are any problems with stock or modified Elans. Its a good thing we all see life and Elans differently so that we can all go out and play with what we want too.
I met Morgan nearly ten years ago at British Car day in Brookline, Ma. He had just got His then new Elan finished enough to drive some 100 plus miles to the event with his dad. You should have seen the grin on his face when he got out of his car, I new the addiction had already set in. There were no upper window frames in the S3 and the glass was removed, other mods were apparent, panasport wheels, and a few others. This is a car that was in need of a lot of work when Morgan bought it, he could have restored it to stock but thats a lot harder and almost always more expensive. When I heard he had it up for sale I could hardly believe it. Well he didn't go through with the sale and the only place to go was with a little more power. The only cure for a little more horsepower is a lot more.
David and I have gone on about weight removal in an Elan before so I won't go into details. It started with the 26r type components and it still continues. If you have met Morgan there is not enough to loose on him, with me I didn't have much to loose either so I had my left leg amputated below the knee when I was 20 to loose another 10 pounds. Most of you have seen photos of my (much modified) Green S2, it weighs around 1250 to 1300 lbs. in street trim depending on the configuration. At the moment the alloy gearcase and tailshaft are out and cast iron items in its place to get a little more rear weight bias. the hardtop is off too as is the passinger seat, no one will ride with me except my yellow lab Beauregard and he doesn't mind.

Getting back to the original part that Ross asked about, does anyone have any other dollar amounts that they care to offer on Roadster, DHC and Coupe?

Friday A friend of mine from High school saw me driving the other way and pulled me over, he said he had been looking for me for a while, he said I got a map for you and theres an Elan just like yours sitting outside there... Oh know not another one. I guess I'll just have to stack them up a little higher.
If its a S1 or S2 I have plans for a sub 1100lb Elan with more power out of the Alloy block twin cam (no BDA's alowed, too expensive anyway and that not a period mod) but I guess the alloy block isn't either, I guess I'll have to paint it with some ferrous type of paint to give it the illusion that its stock. Naaaahh

Gary

[Elanintheforest]

BDAs not a period mod? My Plus 2 has one that was fitted in 1971, together with the K/O 14inch Revolutions. Hang on a minute, I'm the one who's meant to be arguing for originality
Ah, when the hec. I love this sort of debate...there is of couse no answer to it. I'm seriously tempted at the moment by an engine a chum wants to build...an 1800 BDA ally block, bored out to 2.1, with either a twin cam or a BDG on top. Should make 220 bhp in easy-to-use road form with 48s fitted, or a lot more if taken all the way. But with that sort of power in a 2 seat Elan, I guess that the whole transmission and brake system needs re-thinking too...well, it's interesting to muse on
Mark

[garyeanderson]

Hi Mark
I guess I should not have used the term Modification. I want it to look like its stock but not to perform that way. When you pop the bonnet, you get the ho hum, looks like a stock engine there from the onlookers. Its not until you fire that sucker up, thats when the truth be told. I think 180 to 190hp from a sub 2 liter twincam is sufficient in a 1100 lb street Elan. (we are not talking of those overweight Plus2's, they need a 5.0 mustang engine with alloy heads and intake to move that much mass).

Gary

[Elanintheforest]

It carries a 500 pounds weight penalty, but at 6ft 4 inches and 270 pounds and matching big feet I'm a much larger handicap
Mark

[garyeanderson]

Well then maybe it needs a 351 bored and stroked out to 427 in your particular case. No Ho Hum there!

Anyone got any prices yet or are you still holding back for that big uptick in the Elan market to sell your pride and joy?