The future of historic vehicles

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

I picked this up on the "Makes for depressing reading" thread on the Elan forum, it's a quote from Matthew:-

"If I could spend all my time doing a restoration, it would be a good idea, but I cannot so it would take a l-o-n-g time...Classic cars may well have been banned by then, so I'd rather make the most of driving (& free tax) while it lasts."

I've often thought when will the bubble burst?
At the time I found it inconceivable that our "Government" actually permitted our cars to be used on the roads without paying any form of tax.
The way things normally work in the B'liar Isles is that such vehicles would be subject to more penalties or even banned.
Do any of you have any thoughts or knowledge of what the future holds for our beloved Elans?

[steveww]

I certainly believe that if things continue as they are then classic cars will be banned at some point in the future. Nanny does not like these unsafe and polluting cars. Fun is not allowed in our brave new world. Thought crime anyone?

[worzel]

Hi again

Depends how apathetic we are- unfortunately the British seem to have this as an inbuilt characteristic.

I don't believe a "ban" would ever be introduced it's probably going to occur in the very long term as more and more vehicles fall into disuse. It's difficult (I imagine) to prohibit a legitimate activity affecting a large number unless the groundswell of opinion is behid the ban. I don't think there is aparallel with foxhunting- regular polls strongly suggested an overwhelming majority in favour- this was a high profile activity. Classic car interest isn't in the public "mindset" and in any case there are too many commercial interests involved. The jobs case for retaining foxhunting was spurious to say the least and the supporters were out of step with the times (and their case was seen as morally dubious).

John

[tower of strength]

What really gets me about this "pollution" issue is that the manufacture of a car produces more carbon emmissions than it ever could in its life, then add the pollution caused by its disposal at the end of its life.
To my mind we classic car enthusiasts are all tree hugging eco warriors and should bang the drum as thus!!!

[hatman]

Seems to me that no such ban would ever be possible in a 'free' democratic society such as ours. How could any government ban its citizens from using consumer goods that they'd bought and paid for when they reached some arbitrary age? What would that age be? 50 years? 20? 10? 5? Would such a ban also apply to other 'outmoded' goods such as washing machines, tumble-driers etc? With the increasing concern over global-warming and the rape of the planet by rampant consumerism it seems more likely that we will eventually be encouraged to make things last longer rather than chuck them on the scrapheap prematurely. Come on lads, cheer up! - we're actually saving the planet by keeping our old cars in running order year after year.

[1964 S1]

Hello. I too picked up on Matthew's line and thought, hmmm, what's he talking about. Now that you all have elaborated, I suggest following the lead of your ancestors and come to the New World. Come on over and bring your Elans!
Our "leaders" are too busy bickering and seem too distracted, (thought crime is pervasive here but goes unpunished) to ever come up with such a frivolous idea about old cars. Supporters of a classic car ban in the USA would probably be met with gunfire.

[types26/36]

H I suggest following the lead of your ancestors and come to the New World. Come on over and bring your Elans!

Sounds like a good idea but the problem is you lot drive on the "wrong side" of the road

[pmallinson]

Well lads sorry to disagree with you but I really DO think that the tin pot British Governments could well BAN Classics in the name of being ?GREEN? but the real REASON would be that they are not getting much revenue from you in Insurance taxes, Road fund licenses and not even that much petrol taxes as most tend to do limited mileage as they are second or third cars !!

If you remember the SHOCK we all got when the Tories brought in NO Road Tax for cars over 25 years old (that was back in 1996 I Think) only to loose the election and a sneaky ?Stealth Tax? at the very next budget changed the wording to Cars Built Before 1972 etc !! so it was NO longer the sliding scale as cars got older then they became road tax free.

Consider the fact of poor old Lotus owner with a 1973 car who does say 500 summer miles a year (if he can keep it going that long !!) going to a couple of shows and club meetings, he is paying exactly the same road tax (to pay for the wear and tear of the roads !!) as Joe Soap Sales man in his Golf who does 35 K / year NOW HOW FAIR IS THAT ?

Also as for thinking the Government wouldn?t want to upset a few classic car nuts by forcing them to change their paid for equipment, WHAT ABOUT them scrapping normal TV broadcasting and forcing many millions of house holds to spend (in some cases more than the cost of a useable classic car) their hard earned cash on a ny TV as there old one will need to be scrapped !! AND they will be charging a disposal fee on the new TV you can bet !!

I Love a good rant

I moved to Ireland after getting sick of paying taxes for little return other than sending our troupes overseas to fight other counties battles !! Classic cars here are 42 Euro road tax / year but Fuel is Cheaper and NO need for a MOT test at ALL EVERY AGAIN

Cheers & Beers

[elanfan1]

Can I come too?

[Elanintheforest]

National road pricing will be with us in 6 - 10 years, so I can't see any changes before then. Every type of car will have an amount per mile associated with it, probably based on emissions and weight. I'm sure that means that pre-73 cars will have to pay up as well. But if they do it right, it means that petrol will go to ?1 per gallon, annual tax will disappear, and we'll pay an average of 15p /mile for non-congested road use. It will be a heap more at certain times of the day (rush hour), and in urban areas, and on busy 'bottleneck' roads...all the places our cars hate. But the thrash though the countryside on Saturdays and Sundays should still be OK. It's happening around Europe, the USA, Japan, China, Australia and most other places...so you won't escape.
More happy pills and don't fear the reaper
Mark

[Elanintheforest]

National road pricing will be with us in 6 - 10 years, so I can't see any changes before then. Every type of car will have an amount per mile associated with it, probably based on emissions and weight. I'm sure that means that pre-73 cars will have to pay up as well. But if they do it right, it means that petrol will go to ?1 per gallon, annual tax will disappear, and we'll pay an average of 15p /mile for non-congested road use. It will be a heap more at certain times of the day (rush hour), and in urban areas, and on busy 'bottleneck' roads...all the places our cars hate. But the thrash though the countryside on Saturdays and Sundays should still be OK. It's happening around Europe, the USA, Japan, China, Australia and most other places...so you won't escape.
More happy pills and don't fear the reaper
Mark

[tower of strength]

National road pricing will be with us in 6 - 10 years, so I can't see any changes before then. Every type of car will have an amount per mile associated with it, probably based on emissions and weight. I'm sure that means that pre-73 cars will have to pay up as well. But if they do it right, it means that petrol will go to ?1 per gallon, annual tax will disappear, and we'll pay an average of 15p /mile for non-congested road use. It will be a heap more at certain times of the day (rush hour), and in urban areas, and on busy 'bottleneck' roads...all the places our cars hate. But the thrash though the countryside on Saturdays and Sundays should still be OK. It's happening around Europe, the USA, Japan, China, Australia and most other places...so you won't escape.
More happy pills and don't fear the reaper
Mark

If this comes in and its done by a GPRS type thingumajigy in the car, I cant wait, with the notorious reliability of Lotus electrics, it'd never work!!!! All pray to the Prince of Darkness, Good ole Joe Lucas!!!

[chrishewett]

National road pricing will be here thats for sure. So will you have to fit a GPS receiver into your elan? At whose cost? And when you are doing 41mph in a 40 limit the fine will just be added to your next bill. Of course the government will know exactly where you are all the time and where you are going. You won't be able to stop for a minute on those double yellows to pick up your newspaper, instant fine. Tied in with the cameras that will film you front and back every 40 seconds there will obviously be no crime. Unless of course you are a criminal without insurance in a cloned car. But then they never pay fines anyway so why bother to try and catch them? All the brainchild of this great team, Tony and Gordon. ( I've never met anyone who actually admitted to voting for this duo!). For the last six years Leeds university has been working on this project in secret for the government and the norwich union charging insurance by miles scheme is a trial of the real thing. I can't remember being consulted anymore than I am being consulted over the identity of the next prime minister. In the last 12 months there have been 3,621 new laws effecting us in this free country, of which only 27 have been passed by parliament.
The time is 22 years after 1984.
Cor, that was a great rant!
Chris

[1964 S1]

Brian in S. Africa, do these ludicrous laws affect you as well?
Mark, it may be happening around Europe, Japan, China, Australia and most other places but not the USA. Maybe California will take a shot at this but the other forty nine states write their own laws. Individual freedom inside our country seems to be a baseline right. Just ask any illegal alien. Heck, they drive around without a license or insurance, in someone else's car! IF they get caught, it's a big so what.
Peter, excellent rant, you made me realize how much your "leaders" are controlling your everyday lives, TV's AND cars?
Chris, your writings are even scarier, what's going on over there? Is it the top two guys or what??? I admire many old British cars for what they were and are, why would they be banned? What if every classic car owner agreed to pay your nebulous national road pricing fund use tax revenue fee?
And, finally, I think we have a subject here that may surpass the number of replies to the Brian Buckland's Book Thread !
Eric

[Elanintheforest]

Eric...I'm afraid it is happening in USA...the land of the free. There's a freeway tolling scheme being implemented in Seatle, and the Megalopolis (great word eh?) of Boston through Philadelphia is considering the same thing. Most of the big cities are looking at a congestion charge along the lines of London. The mayor of London recently announced that by 2009 it will cost ?25 just to get in and out of London...per day. But he is well known for wanting to get all cars off the road. Currently 200,000 cars go in and out of London each day, and they pay ?8 each...you do the math...very attractive for the mayor of any city!
Freeway tolling, city congestion charging, bridge tolling and street parking fees are just the beginning. When the on-board units can be produced for ?25 or so, it will be a much cheaper way of gathering the road toll.

As a state or federal tax, it's too attractive to ignore, and under the 'green' guise will be quite easy to introduce.

I wouldn't worry too much about the speeding thing though, as the amount of data than can be stored and sent to the central location for billing prohibits the GPS positioning on a greater fequency than road sections. Once it gets to storing position second by second, you've got problems.

It's all the more reason to keep Elans original. If you go to fuel injection, the on-board unit can be hooked into your ECU to regulate the amount of fuel delivered to reduce the speed of the car. Try doing that with Webbers
Mark