Is the MG Midget....

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

I seem to recall a small company (Isle of White, I think) that made Frogeye kits; space frame chassis, glass fibre panels & dare I say it, I think Zetec engine.
Should be fun!

As previously mentioned, I've also enjoyed watching Spridgets being raced by good drivers in Historic events.
They are quick & can show good "Big" Healeys the way home.

Cheers
John

[elansprint]

John the frogeye car company i think but i thought they used the Rover K series
Ian

[denicholls2]

and, contary to what is said about Chapman alway doing things on the cheap

"Cheap" is a relative term. Yes, in the day a Car and Drivel comparison between the Elan, XKE V-12, and Corvette noted that they were very close in price, and not-so-close in refinement as defined by the sports car enthusiast of the day. So no, the Elan was not inexpensive to buy.

However, what maddened the American afficionado of the day was that for the price you definitely did get a lot of "cheapness". Both of the other cars were more durable and had more creature comforts. And the article's conclusion was that you'd have to be daft to choose the Elan, especially given the Lotus quality reputation.

As someone who would now choose the Elan in a heartbeat, the distinction is that in order to provide the F1 engineering that neither of the other cars came close to at any affordable price in an extremely low production volume, the materials used had to be very cheap indeed, like using sheet metal for the chassis instead of titanium tubing. And Chapman's passion for weight reduction certainly translated to flimsiness.

All of the early Loti share this conundrum. They are brilliant machines, but you can't sit on them. And you can't ignore maintaining them. So I think it's not unfair that those who don't appreciate their brilliance regard them as "cheap".

[andyelan]

Hi There

denicholls makes some interesting points. Selling cars is always a compromise between Cost vs Quality. The Toyota 2000GT, which I'm so fond of, was virtually a clone of the Elan and had absolutly exquisite build quality, trouble was it was horrendously expensive and almost the price of an Aston Martin DB.

The bottom line though is this. The price vs quality of Lotus cars was such that they were able move around 25000 units (Elan, Plus2 and Europas) which must have been about their factory capacity, Toyota on the other hand sold 351 2000GTs. This, I would suggests, shows Chapman and Lotus were the ones who got their sums just about spot on.

Andy

[mark030358]

WoW...
Great discussion... It was not a wind up as has beeen suggested... apart from the no comparison performance the early midgets are ermmmm "cute"

A friend of mine in the US races sprigets and midgets... he loves 'em

cheers
Mark

[msd1107]

Since we have considered the Toyota 2000GT, lets look at another iteration on the technology vs price curve.

During the '60s, Honda produced 30,000+ S600 and S800 sports cars. Priced on a level with the Midgets et al, they were very high technology. DOHC, roller bearings, 4 & 5 speed transmissions, independent suspension, etc. There was nothing that compared with twisting the engine past 9500 RPM! However, you never see them anymore. Parts availability is the reason.

The Elan and the inexpensive UK sports cars were based on high volume sedan components for all the fiddly bits that start failing after 5 years. But there was a supply of parts, either new or from breakers.

The Honda was not so fortunate. People still have one in the garage, but it hasn't run in decades because of a lack of a trivial part.

Thank our lucky stars that most of our bits were based on high volume parts or were in popular racing classes that ensure parts availability. And most of the rest of the car is being remanufactured to a greater or lesser extent. Even what just a few years ago was "unobtanium" is now gradually showing up.

David
1968 36/7988

[RichC]

....and that's what the MG Midget has got in common with the Elans ! relatively good parts availability 40-50 years on...'cos they're still popular

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

John the frogeye car company i think but i thought they used the Rover K series
Ian

Ian,
yes of course, my mine of information is, with the years, turning into an abyss!
Now then what did I come upstairs for?

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

and, contary to what is said about Chapman alway doing things on the cheap

"Cheap" is a relative term. Yes, in the day a Car and Drivel comparison between the Elan, XKE V-12, and Corvette noted that they were very close in price, and not-so-close in refinement as defined by the sports car enthusiast of the day. So no, the Elan was not inexpensive to buy.

However, what maddened the American afficionado of the day was that for the price you definitely did get a lot of "cheapness". Both of the other cars were more durable and had more creature comforts. And the article's conclusion was that you'd have to be daft to choose the Elan, especially given the Lotus quality reputation.

As someone who would now choose the Elan in a heartbeat, the distinction is that in order to provide the F1 engineering that neither of the other cars came close to at any affordable price in an extremely low production volume, the materials used had to be very cheap indeed, like using sheet metal for the chassis instead of titanium tubing. And Chapman's passion for weight reduction certainly translated to flimsiness.

All of the early Loti share this conundrum. They are brilliant machines, but you can't sit on them. And you can't ignore maintaining them. So I think it's not unfair that those who don't appreciate their brilliance regard them as "cheap".

The size of the manufacturing company & the available facilities were & remain the hurdles that Lotus had to come to terms with.
At the time the "E Type" was about the same price as the Elan.
However Jaguar were able to "tool up" usu?ng their existing production facilities to produce parts on production machinery.
The cost of getting parts made in presses would have been hidiously expensive for the planned run for Elans.
On the other hand glass fibre molds are very cheap to make but the trouble there is the amount of labour & time it takes to make the bodies. Jaguar would probably have been able to knock out severeal hundred E-Type bodies in the time it took to get 1 Elan body out of its mold.
John

[Elanintheforest]

Only 7.5 : 1 John.

75000 E Types made from 1961 - 1974. But of course the engine, gearbox, diff, rear suspension, brakes and instruments were all much the same as the saloon Jags, so a considerable economy of scale was gained.

Mark