WARNING ELAN FRAUD

[Morangles]

And a bit further down....the same car again with different tyres, a different phone number (which is a hotel!) and a thousand Euros cheaper!

http://www.webmycar.com/zonecar/webacar ... CD0048A33D

And again on another site, which tells us this time the car is in the north of France and the seller is Gia Seeger...!

http://www.toutypasse.com/lotus-elan-s2 ... a1461882p1

[bs982367]

Now, you can see it in Belgium !
http://www.moniteurautomobile.be/voitur ... 767133.cfm

[alexblack13]

One has indeed to be very careful. I have my Porsche Boxster advertised in Autotrader and have had three scam attempts.. Autotrader are ''very concerned'' ... They offer no security whatsoever and have handed my details over to criminals. Not a lot one can do about it, but you dont half need to be very careful.

Stay sharp Guys...

[bcmc33]

eBay is just as dangerous. I fell foul of a computer software scam recently, and PayPal don't want to know. I only lost ?30 but the principle is clear.
I've reported the same scammer using different user names and the item quickly disappears, but I still don't get my money back.

[512BB]

Of course, Alex and Brian, not much point in giving a warning, if you do not say what, or who, to look out for.

Leslie

[alexblack13]

You just need to be very aware.

I got three replies for the Porsche all from guys with very English sounding names and situations ranging from being offshore to out of the country & that the car was for either themselves of for wife / dad etc.. I can't be more specific than that. The main give away was very poor English (I can talk!) E.G. '' am interested in your car'' .....

All of the would be scammers were going to send a carrier and all were proposing using a holding company to arrange the money transfer.

I just asked for a face to face and money hand over in a bank. ---- Silence!! Deleted e mails and discontinued contact at Autotrader's request. All Autotrader said was sorry basically. But then they sent me two more. I now reply telling them to FO..

[billwill]

The basic problem is that the whole essence of trusted escrow has been polluted by these fake transport & escrow companies, so one would probably not recognise a genuine escrow company any more.

I like your idea of meeting in a bank, Alec, but from the point of view of a genuine buyer how does he/she know that you are a genuine seller and how to ensure secure handover of the car you are selling.

[alexblack13]

They would have just left my home after viewing the car and its documents, checked the details against Logbook & test driven the car all the way to the bank!! They could even bring their lawyer if they like but that's how I will be doing it. If they don't trust me after that they are welcome to walk. I would take with me the keys and all the car's doc's which would be handed over when the money was checked and counted. Then out to the carpark to say bye bye car.... Mrs B' who was following us in my car then runs us back home.

I have the money. They have a nice car..

It's still on Autotrader but I have removed the email address.

Cheers guys. Be careful out there.

[billwill]

Ah, that's fine for a car that works and is insured, MOTed and taxed, but what if any of those elements are missing.

Just pondering...

[alexblack13]

Mine are all present and correct sure. But there are the same rules. You just dont get the test drive and you hand over the ? for what you see. You are still at the address of the person selling etc so the happy days rules should still apply.
Just dont meet anyone in a service area or where you are unsure as to the validity of the address / person. I had a guy arrive and buy an expensive radio scanner (Sony) and he paid in nice shiny new fake money. Or tried too.. Not one of his best days shall we say.

Method one does not work all the time though eh? So you have to be extra careful if you are selling too. They can vet you ok but all you can do is check their money. Bankers drafts can be fake. Pay-pal can do 'claw-backs' and you can get paid with a load of counterfeit dosh very very easily.. That's why I use a Bank. Genuine buyers will be fine with that.

Always hazards.. Do what you are comfortable with. Or not, as you wish. Buying or selling.

If Buying.. Don't part with a penny 'till you have seen the car and verified who you are dealing with.

[elanman999]

Alex,
That's fine but there is a legal limit (in UK) as to the amount one can pay for something in cash, 8K I think? Unless they can prove where the money has come from.
Edit, Just a thought.They could use a card in your bank to transfer straight into your account.
Cheers
John

[alexblack13]

True. But all they need is a tellers bank receipt to prove the account they took the dosh from...

Anyway.. be careful.

al' ...

[Jas]

I had the opposite problem when buying my Elan.
The seller didn't trust any of the money transfer arrangements, like Paypall or even a bank transfer,as they are all designed to protect the buyer, so it is possible to reverse the money again up to a month after the transaction.
Meeting in the bank was also a bit tricky as I live in Denmark and the car was in the UK, so money transfer would take 2-3 days, and I wouldn't transfer the money before seeing the car.
I ended up filling my pockets with cash, but it was exiting going through airport security, as it was far more than what you are allowed to take out of the country. It was also exiting walking through down town Leeds on a Friday night from the train station to the cheep hotel.
Buying the car car felt almost like a drug deal (no I haven't tried it) with a big wad of used ? notes.
Luckily everything worked out, but it would be nice if it was easier, with a money transfer that both sides could trust.

[bcmc33]

eBay is just as dangerous. I fell foul of a computer software scam recently, and PayPal don't want to know. I only lost ?30 but the principle is clear.
I've reported the same scammer using different user names and the item quickly disappears, but I still don't get my money back.

My apologies to PayPal for doubting them - they credited my account today for the full ?30.

However, Caveat Emptor remains as the most important mind-set in any transaction.

[Matthijs67]

Again:
http://www.autoscout24.nl/Details.aspx? ... 00&asrc=st

I reported it again.

Matthijs