Elan S3 restoration questions please

[Neil Spooner]

Hi All,

I have not long started the restoration of my Elan S3, and would like it to be as original as possible, but with perhaps some sympathetic improvements. The car is to be used for Sunny days out, not a daily driver.

The original chassis is in very good condition, with just a couple of small repairs made to correct localised corrosion completed. I wanted to have the chassis hot dip galvanised but have been advised that this can lead to distortion of the chassis, so have opted for Cold Galvanising using Rustoleum Hard Hat Galv brush coated.

Questions please:

1-What was the original colour of the chassis? Red Oxide or Black?

2-What colour were the chassis components? ie the wishbones, rear struts etc.

3-What colour were the brake calipers? Red would be nice, but as I say I am trying to stay original.

4-I want to change the driveshafts to get rid of the Rotoflex couplings, CV joint or UJ is best?

5-Which dampers? Koni/Spax/other. The rear ride height seems a little low. I think there is also an issue if I use the UJ drive shaft to reduce droop in case of UJ lockup.

6-It currently has the small bore tubular ex' manifold and ex system (cross chassis rear silencer), is there a significant increase in power when upgrading to the large bore manifold and ex system?

7-Is the reduction in weight enough to justify the alloy gearbox bell housing and tail casting?

8-Are the brakes adequate for fast road use, or is it worth upgrading to the larger front discs/calipers, and is it worth going to drilled/slotted discs?

9-Should I consider the cooler scoop for the differential?

10-The propshaft needs balancing, any recommendations please?

11-Is there a significant improvement in performance by fitting K&N (or similar) air filters? (Webers fitted)(I won't be listening to the radio, so the increased induction noise is not an issue!)

12- Does anyone have a diagram of the sump internal baffles to reduce oil surge?

13-The starter motor is tired and in need of overhaul and the ring gear is worn, so I am considering the lightweight high torque unit, any pointers please?

14-Are the benefits of an alternator worth the expense? The dynamo seems to be working well.

15-Should I be fitting the heavy duty differential suspension bushes/tie rod bushes?

16-Any recommendations on tyres?

17-Where can I get the thin/soft door seal rubbers from?

Any other suggestions/recommendations/pointers welcome!

Thank you in advance for any help or assistance.

BTW I am located just north of Colchester Essex, Uk.

Best wishes,

Neil

[Andy8421]

Neil,

Welcome

The Elan was designed for 'fast road use', so if that is your aim you need to be careful about the mods, and don't overdo it. Have a look at Harry's garage and Jay Leno's garage about the perils of over-developing an Elan for road use.

Answers are of course 'in my opinion' others may disagree. Most of these answers are already on the forum. Using Google to search and you will find what you need. FWIW, I would add 'new wiring loom' to your list.

Good luck.

Andy.

Just to get you going:

1-What was the original colour of the chassis? Red Oxide or Black? Red oxide

2-What colour were the chassis components? ie the wishbones, rear struts etc.I don't think the front bones were painted, not sure about the original colours of the rear components

3-What colour were the brake calipers? Red would be nice, but as I say I am trying to stay original. Cadmium plated

4-I want to change the driveshafts to get rid of the Rotoflex couplings, CV joint or UJ is best? CVs are far better

5-Which dampers? Koni/Spax/other. The rear ride height seems a little low. I think there is also an issue if I use the UJ drive shaft to reduce droop in case of UJ lockup. Dampers won't change ride height, you need adjustable perches / different springs, limited droop rear shocks can help with certain CV conversions

6-It currently has the small bore tubular ex' manifold and ex system (cross chassis rear silencer), is there a significant increase in power when upgrading to the large bore manifold and ex system? Depends how you define significant. Large bore manifold is a pain to fit

7-Is the reduction in weight enough to justify the alloy gearbox bell housing and tail casting?Not for fast road use

8-Are the brakes adequate for fast road use, or is it worth upgrading to the larger front discs/calipers, and is it worth going to drilled/slotted discs?Standard brakes are fine

9-Should I consider the cooler scoop for the differential?Only needed for top end circuit racing

10-The propshaft needs balancing, any recommendations please?

11-Is there a significant improvement in performance by fitting K&N (or similar) air filters? (Webers fitted)(I won't be listening to the radio, so the increased induction noise is not an issue!) The standard system draws cold air from the plenum and is superior to carb mounted filters

12- Does anyone have a diagram of the sump internal baffles to reduce oil surge?Not needed for fast road use

13-The starter motor is tired and in need of overhaul and the ring gear is worn, so I am considering the lightweight high torque unit, any pointers please?Pre engaged gear starters are a significant improvement over the original

14-Are the benefits of an alternator worth the expense? The dynamo seems to be working well.Yes, alternator is lighter, higher output at lower revs and more reliable.

15-Should I be fitting the heavy duty differential suspension bushes/tie rod bushes? Modern aftermarket rubber bushes are variable quality, and the bushes at the back tend to get soaked in oil and perish. I prefer poly bushes where possible

16-Any recommendations on tyres? Michelin XAS FF - at a price

17-Where can I get the thin/soft door seal rubbers from?

[512BB]

Good morning Neil and welome to the board.

We love a full restoration thread. Please post loads of pictures and ask as many questions as you like. Thats what keeps the site alive. I will kick off with a few answers to your queries.

1-What was the original colour of the chassis? Red Oxide or Black?

Both, depending on the year of the car, but your S3 was, in all probability red oxide. Galvanised chassis were only supplied as replacements, after car production ceased. And plenty of those were bent!

2-What colour were the chassis components? ie the wishbones, rear struts etc.

The ali housings were never painted and the steel tubes fitted to the housings were satin black. Nothing was powder coated. The satin black was just sprayed on to the component, no primer, inc. when chassis' were black, and that is why things rusted away in short order!

3-What colour were the brake calipers? Red would be nice, but as I say I am trying to stay original.

Calipers were cadmium plated. No longer possible due to H & S in this country. Get them white zinc plated, which is very bright when first applied, but it tones down. Gold pasivate looks awful.

5-Which dampers? Koni/Spax/other. The rear ride height seems a little low. I think there is also an issue if I use the UJ drive shaft to reduce droop in case of UJ lockup.

I would never use Spax, heard to many horror stories.

6-It currently has the small bore tubular ex' manifold and ex system (cross chassis rear silencer), is there a significant increase in power when upgrading to the large bore manifold and ex system?

Not unless you are inreasing the HP of the engine and the increased noise level is not worth it. Stick to original.

7-Is the reduction in weight enough to justify the alloy gearbox bell housing and tail casting?

No, go on a diet. Much cheaper and healthier.

8-Are the brakes adequate for fast road use, or is it worth upgrading to the larger front discs/calipers, and is it worth going to drilled/slotted discs?

Almost everything was perfect as the car left the factory, inc. the brakes.

9-Should I consider the cooler scoop for the differential?

No.

10-The propshaft needs balancing, any recommendations please?

The firm you want is something Bailey, in St. Neots. Get the whole shaft O/H by them. You will not regret it. Full name will come to me.

11-Is there a significant improvement in performance by fitting K&N (or similar) air filters? (Webers fitted)(I won't be listening to the radio, so the increased induction noise is not an issue!)

Forget it. Stick to original set up.

13-The starter motor is tired and in need of overhaul and the ring gear is worn, so I am considering the lightweight high torque unit, any pointers please?

As above. Perfect when everything is set up right, inc. engine and electrics.

14-Are the benefits of an alternator worth the expense? The dynamo seems to be working well.

As above.

15-Should I be fitting the heavy duty differential suspension bushes/tie rod bushes?

Possibly.

17-Where can I get the thin/soft door seal rubbers from?

If you find out, let us know!

Good luck with it.

Leslie

[gherlt]

I would like to add just two things to the previous answers.

11-Is there a significant improvement in performance by fitting K&N (or similar) air filters? (Webers fitted)(I won't be listening to the radio, so the increased induction noise is not an issue!)
My S3 PO had K&N's fitted and they did not work well in hot weather or in stationary traffic. As mentioned above, the nose mounted filter sucks in "cold" air, and the engine bay sometimes gets very hot.
But there is another, more serious problem: the carburettors sometimes spit petrol in the opposite direction. The standard airbox catches it and the fumes are sucked back in. K&N filters are better than open trumpets, but I wouldn't risk it.

14-Are the benefits of an alternator worth the expense? The dynamo seems to be working well.
You say "would like it to be as original as possible", then you keep the dynamo until it causes a problem.
Problems arise when - generally speaking - you put a lot of strain on the battery and do not give it enough time to recover (short trips, all the lights on all the time, etc.). As it will not be your daily driver, there are three solutions:
- keep the dynamo and see if you have a problem with it, which I doubt.
- for originality I would buy an alternator in dynamo disguise, Dynalite, Dynamator or whatever. Not full alternator power, but more than enough and much better looking than the later alternator.
- keep the dynamo, buy a ctek battery conditioner and have your battery connected all the time.
This is the cheapest solution if you do not use your car regularly.
Basically also valid if you install an alternator.

Generally, this is a mod which can be done afterwards without any problems at all,

[smo17003]

Bailey Morris is the name of the propshaft specialist.

You didn't mention the steering rack, Kiley Clinton in Birmingham do a great job if you want it reconditioned.

If you want K & N then you can keep the standard trunking and fit one of their conical filters in place of the original.

As mentioned, use the search facility on here (or via Google is better). Everything you need to know about Elan restoration has been asked about before on here. Spend some time on here searching through old topics, there's a lot that you will learn that will help going forward.

Cheers

[Neil Spooner]

Thank you Andy and Leslie for your fast response and guidance, also such quick a response!

That info' gets me going in the right direction and is all good advice.

Bailey Morris seem to know what they are doing, I will get the P'shaft to them.

Some other Q's spring to mind:

1-Who would you recommend for parts supplies?

2- ditto insurance.

3-LSD worth the cost?

Thank you gents.

Neil

[trw99]

Welcome Neil,

I'm in Dunmow if you get stuck with anything, not too far from you.

Parts supply: Susan Miller at Mick Miller Lotus: http://www.mickmillerlotus.com/intro.html If Susan can not supply you, she will point you in the right direction. She is extremely knowledgeable and happy to help if you have a problem. She is best contacted initially by email, as she works on her own.

Insurance: As with your daily driver, it pays to shop around each year - Footman James, Hagarty et al.

LSD: Nope. I'm a bit confused about your wish to stay original and then asking about all these mods! My Sprint is entirely original (actually, it does have a Wazp high torque starter!).

Tim

[Neil Spooner]

Hi Tim,

Thank you for your input.

As I will need to go into the diff' to install uprated output shafts for the non doughnut shafts I thought it sensible to consider the LSD..........It doesn't change the aesthetics of the car but could be useful.

Could you pm me your contact details please?

Thanks

Neil

[Neil Spooner]

Some photos…

[Neil Spooner]

The Chassis was blasted back to clean bare metal and primed with Cold Zinc Rustoleum hard hat primer within the hour of being blasted.

Red oxide colour yet to be applied to chassis.

[Andy8421]

As I will need to go into the diff' to install uprated output shafts for the non doughnut shafts I thought it sensible to consider the LSD..........It doesn't change the aesthetics of the car but could be useful.

Neil

Neil,

I think its a good idea to give the innards of the diff a once over while its out, but you don't need to get into the diff to change the output shafts if that's all you want to do.

Regarding the LSD, are you planning on entering a tractor pull? The Elan is considered by many to be the best handling sportscar ever made. Its a fine balance between the various components, weight distribution, suspension design, engine performance and so on. You have to be careful about modding one part and instead of the thoroughbred racehorse you started off with, you end up with a camel. I referenced Harry's garage above, have a look at the link and his comments about modding his Elan for track usage and its effect on drivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeYvA-bXH_w

My own view is that unless you are an originality junkie, a few sensible mods to improve usability and safety make good sense. A proper cooling system, alternator, pre-engaged starter, electronic ignition, new loom and CV driveshafts don't detract from the original ethos, are easily reversible and result in a more usable and safer car.

If you want a track car, that is a different conversation.

Andy.

[RichardHawkins]

Neil,

I like your device for moving the body around. I used a similar box but with 4 castors, I think your design is more controllable and will roll more smoothly with those large wheels.

In my working life I had responsibility for lifting equipment. Whilst I know many people use ratchet straps, and they are very tempting, the factory inspector would have prosecuted me if I had allowed their use for lifting.

Richard Hawkins