Quick intro + questions galore

[wdb]

Hi, I'm not sure if I've posted here yet or not but if I have it was not much and a while ago. I have a Caterham with a Lotus twincam motor and Cortina gearbox, and I joined in order to see posts/pics/whatnot regarding those bits. It's been very helpful and my hat is off to all of you.

Now, hat in hand, I have questions regarding Elans, specifically one I am considering buying. It is a 1966 I believe, still owned by the fellow who bought it new. It was his only car for a while here in Pennsylvania so it saw year-round weather for those years. He drove it to hillclimb events and raced it. He totally enjoyed it in other words. I don't think it's seen a lot of use over the past decade or so. I believe it is largely original.

I'm going to inspect the car tomorrow(!!!) and I've been trying to find information regarding what to look for in terms of trouble areas. Backbone frame rust, okay, but is there a specific place or places to look? (We should have access to a lift.) I think I know about the engine but would welcome thoughts there as well. Suspension, electrics, what and how many? Stuff like that.

Thanks in advance. Apologies for the short notice. If I wind up with the car I promise to torture you with too much information.

[GLB]

The Elan is without compare. Look especially at the front crossmember as it is the vacuum tank for the headlights. If it is rusted the headlights won't work. At each end of the crossmember is what is called the turret that rises and hold the top of the front shock. It is open at the top and the bottom only had small drain openings that frequently clogged and rusted out. The bottom of the turret is also the end of the crossmember and that is often where the rust is for the crossmember. Look at the side of the backbone unit where the body attaches as it can also trap moisture and rust. Every thing else should be easily examined. Good luck and I hope it works out for you. Gary

[smo17003]

If it is on its original steel wheels check their condition, they can be difficult to find and usually expensive.
And of course, the drive axle rubber couplings (donuts), check for any splits or deterioration.

[Andy8421]

Its coming up to its 60th birthday, and these cars weren't designed for longevity. Given the background and its location, it would be surprising if the frame (chassis) didn't need replacing.

Rubber components (brake rubbers, brake hoses, suspension bushes, tyres, rotoflex are all likely to need to be replaced. The wiring was substandard when new, and the lack of environmental protection (particularly in the nose cone and engine bay) means that you should expect electrical problems in these areas. The Elan doesn't have the earth return many of the components raided from third party parts bins expect, and Lotus' spiders web of earthing cables are a source of continual challenge.

Having said all that, its not much worse that any other car of the period (wiring aside), and as you already have twincam experience, the engine should be very familiar.

Most parts (except for model specific brightwork) are readily available, and the community is very supportive.

I think if you expect perfection you will be disappointed, but if you anticipate some work to get it to a usable state, absent the frame having rotted away, you should be in with a chance. Even the frame is a straightforward replacement, but the tendency to want to refurbish all the bits attached to the frame "while you are at it" can make this a major undertaking.

[wdb]

Thanks to the moderators for approving my post (I guess it really was my first) and to everyone for the quick replies! It's pouring rain here -- Debby's tentacles reaching north I suspect -- and so the inspection may be delayed.

The specifics on the frame are very helpful. I had read about plugged drainage holes but not where they were located. I've also seen mention of rusting door frames, but it doesn't sound dire. I'm also not averse to replacing the frame if needs be. My biggest issue at the moment is a frequently heard one -- too many projects. The Caterham is in the midst of a conversion to dry sump after I tore the second oil pan up within a single driving season. I also have a 911 in need of attention although not immediately. And our Tacoma could use some attention as well.

A bit more introduction stuff. Once upon a time, "back in my mis-spent youth", I owned, daily drove, and even wrenched professionally for a time, on English cars of various ilks. Minis, MGBs, a Cortina GT, etcetera. I got away from that lifestyle when family and livelihood needs rendered it impractical. I once had a generator on a Mini Cooper suddenly decide to become a motor instead, which caused it to toss the belt and make the strangest noises as it spun happily away all by itself. I have thrown coco mats on the ground so I could whack the SU fuel pump on an MGB with a knockoff hammer without dirtying (much) my dress shirt. I have routed a choke cable over the windshield and used it to control the throttle by hand after the regular throttle cable broke. And so on. Here's a really crazy bit of personal historical data: I was never stranded on the side of the road by Lucas electrics. Stuff broke for sure, but I always made it home. I can't say the same for Bosch.

Suffice it to say that I am familiar with the curious way the English connect one wire to another, among other oddities. I hadn't considered the Elan's need for extra grounding wiring though; thanks for that information. Also the reminder to check all the rubber gubbins. One thing I know from experience is that English cars do not like to sit still for very long, and they show their displeasure by spewing fluids. Age also takes a toll on suspension bits, even when stored indoors as this car has been. I'll be sure to give them their due attention.

I'm aware of the active and lively community of support for Elans and for Colin Chapman's creations in general. Its existence is a major plus when considering the purchase of a very old English car. Another advantage I have is that Ray Dent of R.D. Enterprises is not far from where we live. He's already been incredibly helpful with some of the Caterham bits I've needed.

Thanks again everyone.

[Lotus54]

The drain hole is at the corners of the turret (so I recall). Likely rusted on a car used in winder in the NE.
A replacement frame is not that expensive, but it costs more than the frame to get it to the states. They come in a pretty large crate.
I would expect needing all flexible brake and clutch hoses, new rubber donuts (I converted to Elantrikbits CV axles) and perhaps radiator.
I have a 66, I am replacing frame this winter due to some questionable repairs. My plan is to make up a jig from the new frame so I can properly repair the original- then put it up for sale (so I kept the crate).

Carbs probably need attention (I assume Webers?) likely needing shaft bearings/seals along with usual cleaning. I installed sealed bearings when I did mine, precluding need for the leather seals.

Good luck in any case
Mark

[Sadbrewer]

Hi, I'm not sure if I've posted here yet or not but if I have it was not much and a while ago. I have a Caterham with a Lotus twincam motor and Cortina gearbox, and I joined in order to see posts/pics/whatnot regarding those bits. It's been very helpful and my hat is off to all of you.

Now, hat in hand, I have questions regarding Elans, specifically one I am considering buying. It is a 1966 I believe, still owned by the fellow who bought it new. It was his only car for a while here in Pennsylvania so it saw year-round weather for those years. He drove it to hillclimb events and raced it. He totally enjoyed it in other words. I don't think it's seen a lot of use over the past decade or so. I believe it is largely original.

I'm going to inspect the car tomorrow(!!!) and I've been trying to find information regarding what to look for in terms of trouble areas. Backbone frame rust, okay, but is there a specific place or places to look? (We should have access to a lift.) I think I know about the engine but would welcome thoughts there as well. Suspension, electrics, what and how many? Stuff like that.

Thanks in advance. Apologies for the short notice. If I wind up with the car I promise to torture you with too much information.

As mentioned aboved the critical area can be seen on this pic...it really can become as thin as tissue paper.

If the car you're looking at hasn't been converted to electric lift light pods...the rectangular section member is the vacuum reserve for the headlights. On the earlier models ( mine is a 1969 S4 ) lift the lights and rev the engine hard (better done on the road IMO ) if the lights start to drop there is a leak on the system and it could ( though not exclusively) be a sign of a perforated member ( my original chassis had more tiny holes than a sieve).

[wdb]

I bought it.

I wasn't quite spot-on in my recollection of the car. It's a 1967 S3 SE. It runs and drives. We took it out for a spin in fact. Gosh these cars are narrow! I fit, but I was surprised when the door hit my hip as it closed.

It does need some attention to make it a bit safer for the road. And it still has rubber doughnuts, so there's that. The original frame has surface rust but seems quite solid; the front drain holes are not blocked and the headlights hold vacuum, for starters. The steering felt vague to me, but the owner didn't notice anything; it didn't come back to straight ahead on its own, for example. I didn't find anything particularly loose, but may have missed something. The rubber bits underneath are all original so there may be a bushing or two allowing the rack to wander? I need to investigate it more. Any thoughts on what might cause that would be most welcome. In the meantime it will get a D/S motor mount, some new shocks, brake attention, and then I'll bring it home. (The owner has graciously offered to let me work on it in his garage for a while!)

[Lotus54]

I would suspect trunions and/or ball joints- plus tie rod ends. At least I would check all those first.
Certainly should not be vague at all, quite the opposite. Of course tyres/air pressure can make a big difference.

I really like the Elantrikbits axles/CV setup. Much easier to drive (for me) and don’t have to worry about rotoflexs failing.

[wdb]

I would suspect trunions and/or ball joints- plus tie rod ends. At least I would check all those first.
Certainly should not be vague at all, quite the opposite. Of course tyres/air pressure can make a big difference.

I really like the Elantrikbits axles/CV setup. Much easier to drive (for me) and don’t have to worry about rotoflexs failing.

I looked for top/bottom play in the front end while it was in the air and only felt a wee bit; about enough to be wheel bearing play. The suspension was fully extended however so that may be hiding some play at normal levels. The tires are also brand new, Vredesteins of some kind, but I don't know how much they might be contributing.

Thanks for the tip about CV joint axles. CVs are what the owner suggested as well, and from my reading so far they seem to make the most sense.

[The Veg]

Welcome WDB!

Sounds like you got a good one- looking forward to reading about what you learn about it and what gets done to it. And the most important advice: have as much fun as you can with it!