S3 badges, perhaps a contentious topic

[The Cyclist]

Slowly I am forgiving Lydia for letting me down when I was just about to show her off to my wife as a practical and reliable form of transport. As part of my bonding process I am trying to make sense of the history of the car - which I am told is an S3 SE. But at the restoration there was no evidence of holes to mount badges on the rear wings or for the under door trim.
Damn.
Looking at the pictures I have when the car was in the barn it has the badges on the front wings - similar to quite a number of other S3’s it seems and it’s increasingly clear it was originally LHD - there was a badly covered hole for the steering column, the electrical wiring is LHD and there are some unused holes in the engine bay. I was also told the car belonged to a cartoonist for an American magazine - which fits.
So my question is: Do early American S3 SE have under door trims or not? For the UK its an inviolable rule - but what about in the USA?
I have to make a choice - do I fit the trims and do I move the badges back to the front wings - which is originality vs expectation. I would like to have knowledge before I make a choice.
Thank you for your help everyone.

[Ianstuart]

If you give us the full ID/unit number, someone here (probably trw99) will give you the car’s history.

[The Cyclist]

Well Ian, it's chassis 6071. Built 1966. I think it was in the USA for the first 10 years of it's life more or less. In UK it's LYF55D. I have checked with the extremely helpful Lotus archivist, but he doesn't have detailed information before 1968.

Any information, of course gratefully received.

Geoff

[Ianstuart]

Geoff
As Tim (trw99) has evidently not seen this thread, you might want to contact him direct. He has a lot of archive info and may be able to help.
Also, there are some amateur “registers”, including in the USA. Research these on line.
I don’t claim to be an expert, but I do have a couple of cars and all the books on Elans, so here are my thoughts, for what they’re worth.
36/6071 or 45/6071 (you didn’t say which) was definitely manufactured July/August 1966.
It could be an S/E, but the absence of holes for badges and sill trim tends to indicate otherwise. The factory could have run out of badges or trims (surely not both?), and just sent the car out anyway, especially if it was going to the USA, as the customer probably wouldn’t have known the correct spec, and certainly wasn’t going to send it back.
The main and rear wiring looms are universal, not lhd or rhd. The dash loom might well be handed however.
Covered-up holes or extra holes don’t really signify a lot on a 57 year-old car. A previous owner might have started a lhd conversion, then changed his mind. It could have been exported as rhd, or you could be right, in which case there should be some evidence that the pedals and master cylinders were once fitted on the left.
As you probably know, S/E (C type) cams are different to standard (B type). C type cams have a machined groove, B types have no groove. You could check, but of course, the cams might have been changed, or the incorrect ones fitted in the first place.
In the absence of any other evidence, I’d assume the car isn’t an S/E and that it could have been exported and lhd, but maybe not. Doesn’t make a lot of difference when you have finished the restoration, but I fully understand your desire to get it right.
Ian

[Mazzini]

Well Ian, it's chassis 6071. Built 1966. I think it was in the USA for the first 10 years of it's life more or less. In UK it's LYF55D. I have checked with the extremely helpful Lotus archivist, but he doesn't have detailed information before 1968.

Any information, of course gratefully received.

Geoff

I may have owned this car in the 1980's. If it's the same car, it was a UK RHD S3 S/E that had gone to the States and then been repatriated. I sold it to a guy in Bucks. PM me.

[types26/36]

Maybe this chart will.help

[Elanintheforest]

The early S3 (65 / 66) did have the badges on the front wings, only moved to the rear around the time that the Airflow version of the S3 was introduced, around Motor Show time 1966 (September / October). Your car left the factory in June 1966, so my bet is that your cars badges are in their correct, original position, with the one being the Indianapolis Winners 1965, and the other World Champion 1963 / 1965.

The S/E would have the fabricated exhaust manifold (rather than cast), the leather bound steering wheel, a carpeted boot floor, knock-on wheels as standard (although they were often taken up as options) and a brake servo. The S/E cams would be obvious if you take them out, as would the S/E spec jets and chokes.And of course the chrome strip and repeater indicator lamps on the wings. The differential was often (but not always) 3.55:1 ratio, and sometimes the inertia belts were also fitted.

Having any, all or none of this doesn't really prove anything after nearly 60 years of course as many bits could have been added or removed. If you are removing paint from the sills at any time previous holes where the sill clips had been screwed in would probably be pretty obvious.

Mark

[jabingb]

In addition to Mark's insights believe the S/E would also have textured seat inserts, an under-body diff scoop (if 3.55), a green cam cover, k/o wheels and little air vents on both sides of the dash trim.

[Elan45]

Mark, Jerry and Cyclist,

45-6158 is an S3 SE Elan that I have owned since 1984. A local doctor was the original owner. but he died in early 1970s. His son took over the car and brought it to Columbus in 1975.

I believe it was originally a S3-SE, but in the late 60's, Dr Counts had it converted to 26R by a local shop. When I bought the car in 1984, the 1st thing I noticed the S1 26R wheels it was wearing. Next I looked in the boot and sure enough, there was a 5th matching wheel as a spare. I next looked under the bonnet and there were 3 Girling master cylinders and remote reservoirs. The wheels were painted distinctive pattern and several weeks later, a friend offered me a set of Ser 2 26R wheels painted the same and some other parts we then knew had been from the car. The son had crashed the car in 1975 and the nose was badly damaged.So, when I bought it, the nose was missing and the radiator, cylinder head and cam cover. were gone, but the head and cam cover were in the parts offered by my friend.

I thought I would restore this car later that year, but instead, an Eleven S2 LM followed me home and it begged attention more than the Elan. It is still the same way I bought it 39 years ago. So, I ran out to the shop and the seats are as you described and I remembered it did have the diff scoop and the broken cam cover is the original green. An other SE trait was the inertia real seat belts and this car retains them. A few months after purchase, I was offered the original KO wheels, hubs etc by a friend of a friend who had worked in the shop that converted the car to 26R.

Roger

Mark, Who was Dudley Davies?