Is this a viable oppertunity ?

[Paul Chapman]

I have just spotted this on ebay, is it a viable opportunity, is it legal ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1967-LOTUS-EL ... 48609320b4

[jono]

He is selling an identity - ideal for crooks/ringers.

I think that the bodyshell on an Elan is the 'chassis' unit anyway so, even if he does have the chassis, I don't think that counts.

This does happen a lot, but I don't think it's legal

[Spyder fan]

Only if you have a stolen car that you want to apply a new identity to There's no legitimate reason for wanting to buy this.

Even if you have built an S3 DHC from bits, you don't need this as it's quite straightforward to apply an age related registration providing the car has been assembled from parts over 25 years old (easy with a 1960's car) or new pattern parts (new chassis etc).

This sort of trade in identities is more prevalent with Cortina's or Mini's, as a basic cooking model can be altered to replicate a Lotus Cortina or Mini Cooper, then apply the identity and hey presto you have made a few quid. Still not legitimate and is the main reason I don't like LoCorts or Mini Cooper's as there are so many fakes or bitsas out there.

[rgh0]

So why does the identity itself appear to have a value?
Stealing and reselling under a new ID an Elan must be a fairly tricky proposition given the limited numbers
If the ID has no value in creating a new race car from having a genuine old ID ( and all 40 year old race cars are not original in terms of their parts no matter what the current owner claims just their ID'sl!!!)
Then the only other use is to build a S3 road Elan from bits and I presume this must be attractive as the sum of the bits plus an ID equals more money than either alone.

As for legitimacy that is in the eye of the future buyers, in terms of legality that is up to the courts

cheers
Rohan

[Spyder fan]

Hi Rohan,
Let's just say that some uninformed persons over here may wish to take a perceived short cut to register an S3 Elan that they have built from bits, there really is no need to do this as with the help of Club Lotus and the Lotus archivist my pal Don Hands legitimately registered an S2 last year that was indeed assembled from bits and it was given a "normal" registration number commensurate with it's age which was agreed as 1964, it is correctly registered as a Lotus Elan Series 2.

The only other reason for wanting to buy this "identity" is to deceive or defraud..... allegedly Perhaps that's why it appears to have a value? not exactly a legitimate value is it?

[miked]

Same Ebay seller discussed a few weeks ago selling an S3 without a log book, Remember. He must have found it or figure splitting is the way to go.

[rgh0]

Ah - market segmentation ! - the aim of every marketing guy I have ever met

cheers
Rohan

[Spyder fan]

Ah - market segmentation ! - the aim of every marketing guy I have ever met

cheers
Rohan

Isn't it past your bed time? (current Sydney time 23:12)

[miked]

So Alan, are you saying that the route you mention with a bitser car will get you on the road as an S2, S3 S4 (whatever) but without a trial back to Lotus and a car original details. Just the right log book details and age related. Do they give you a chassis plate number then? In effect, the birth of an Elan with no past. If so, a future buyer that tries to trace the history finds out is was a reberth which affects it's future value and upsets them. Is that not the reason that these exchange hands with a value. Am I being thick here. Mike

[Spyder fan]

So Alan, are you saying that the route you mention with a bitser car will get you on the road as an S2, S3 S4 (whatever) but without a trial back to Lotus and a car original details. Just the right log book details and age related. Do they give you a chassis plate number then? In effect, the birth of an Elan with no past. If so, a future buyer that tries to trace the history finds out is was a reberth which affects it's future value and upsets them. Is that not the reason that these exchange hands with a value. Am I being thick here. Mike

Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive

Hi Mike,
No, you are not being thick, maybe just falling into a common sort of trap / path that sometimes happens with the best of intentions. You really cannot legitimately use the V5 identity that is being offered for sale, although there are some who will use it as a shortcut from doing it properly. Even if this is legal (which I doubt), it's at least morally wrong to apply an existing identity to a vehicle made from parts that did not originally carry that identity on the major portion of the parts used. For us Elan owners that major portion is the body shell which is universally recognised as carrying the identity allocated by Lotus on first manufacture.

Don's S2 has a legitimate Lotus allocated unit number and has a chassis plate in the engine bay. The identity of the shell was traced to do this, it came from an S2 supplied as a kit that was originally built as a race car and never road registered, the rest of the car was assembled from original parts that Don collected over the years.

As there was no original registration applied to Don's car the only option for the DVLA to register it was to apply an age related number plate. If the kit had been originally road registered then there would have been the possibility of retaining the original number plate if it was still available. Sometimes the DVLA will not allow the resurrection of an original registration number, or possibly they will have sold it through one of their regular money spinning auctions.

If the V5 in question was being sold with the original shell or even just the remains of the original shell (crash damaged, fire damaged?) it would be a more viable proposition, morally as well as probably legally.

[Jason1]

This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

He either sold it or was told by Ebay to take it down.

[AHM]

Or read the wise words on here and realised that it is a worthless piece of paper unless someone commits fraud.

[KevJ+2]

Ta Da! It's now back including old chassis, bit less market segmentation for us!
I think John P's bolt was better value

[nomad]

To me this is a very grey area of the law.
This subject has come up on Sprite and Midget forums in the US. Apparently there are states here that won't allow a person to build a car from scratch and license it. The argument being that it keep's poorly engineered cars off the road. In this situation, at least to me, using this to construct a new car would seem to be a way around that law that I could support.
However, I know of a Shelby mustang that is running around that is only Shelby in the serial number, title, and a few swapped parts. Not sure if I think that is totally kosher!!

Kurt

[john.p.clegg]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1970-LOTUS-EL ... 9#shpCntId

and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/xxdanniiaxx/m ... 7675.l2562

John

I still don;t know why my bolt wasn't snapped up??