Mr Matty on Elan Values

[trw99]

In the current issue of Classic and Sportscar Paul Matty is quoted at length in their ?One to Watch? feature with regard to current Lotus values in the UK

He talks up the values of good Sprints into the ?30,000-40,000 bracket soon. Says S4s are the cheapest variant at the moment, the S3 is the Cinderella version and he expects values to rise sharply soon and that S1 and S2s have already gone ballistic because the racers all want one. I am paraphrasing but you get the drift.

Of course we have to recognise that as a dealer Paul has a vested interest in talking up the values of the cars he sells. I also recognise that most of us buy an Elan because we recognise the fun it will bring us, not the investment value. It is probably true to say that the initial outlay is not the biggest cost we need to worry about (particularly if we aim to restore the car), it is the ongoing running costs that are more relevant.

It strikes me that the market for the Elan and for most ?interesting? classic cars is rising and I also feel hello, we?ve been here before in the late 1980s. Then prices bubbled and cars were getting bought for perceived investment value; a lot of people had their fingers burnt when that bubble burst. It will always, though, come down to the good old laws of supply and demand and this is where I think the Elan market could get interesting.

Four to five years ago there was a better supply of Elans than there is right now. You only have to compare the number of adverts in Club Lotus News; 19 in issue 2 of 2005, 2 in the latest issue this year (I include all Elans S1-4s, Sprints and +2s). I am not going to delve into the numbers of Elans that still exist here. So supply has dwindled; what of demand? I think it is still there but more, shall we say, particular now. With regard to my special interest, the Sprint, I believe most are now in the hands of people who intend to restore, use and keep the car for their own enjoyment, probably for a very long time. I suppose that applies to the S1 and S2 as well. Perhaps there are still S3 and S4 Elans out there owned by the classic car enthusiast, who will transfer their interests to another marque once they are done with their Elan. What of the +2? A well know late +2 130/5 in excellent condition is for sale ? by Mr Matty! ? at ?27,995. Other good +2s values have been rising recently and is it just me, or are there fewer being broken up and sold off part by part on E-Bay?

So if the majority of Elans are now in the hands of people who intend to keep them for a good while, as opposed to seeing them as an investment, which would seem to indicate that prices may indeed continue to trend upwards. Maybe we shall see Elans being bought by syndicates. Perhaps values will rise to the point where the serious classic players get attracted, away from their expensive Ferraris, Astons, top end Jaguars and Porsches (what we might call the Octane cars!). My word, perhaps we shall see Elans at the Salon Prive or Pebble Beach! Where will it all end?

[jimj]

There was an S4 dhc for sale at the H&H auction today with a guide price of around ?15,000. I had a good look at it yesterday and couldn`t tell if the chassis was original, there was no mention. I couldn`t open the bonnet despite help from the H&H staff. The yellow paint was in varying shades. Today the bonnet was open showing the various resprays didn`t include painting around the edges. Underbonnet was messy with Strombergs but the interior was excellent. Worryingly the MOT runs out in May, why?
No surprise it only reached ?10,000 and didn`t sell. I think ?10K was plenty.
Jim

[pauljones]

Hi all.

I think we would all agree,that a price rise would be good if the intention was to sell. But surely the parts suppliers would learn of this much sooner than the average owners, and therefore raise their prices in accordance,quite possibly making ownership more expensive and out of the reach of TRUE enthusiast's.

I hope this doesnt happen as our cars are too rare and need real love and care to keep them going,not a big wad of cash while it sits in a garage doing nothing.



Paul

[Elanintheforest]

It?s very hard to look at or compare prices without comparing the condition of the car. A mate bought an S4 dhc from Paul recently for a few hundred quid shy of ?30k, and he had a really good deal. It?s a Peter Day restored car, and is genuinely one of the best Elans in the world. To take the rolling banger that Jim is talking about for ?10k, and turn that into a car as good as the Paul Matty one would cost a further ?30k to ?40k if you took it to one of the specialists.

The Plus 2 referred to by Tim is another Peter Day restoration, a one owner low mileage car and the fourth from last one made. Again, it?s one of the best in the world, and you couldn?t re-create this car from a project base for less than a total ?40k, unless you were a very talented bodywork, paint, trim and mechanical whiz and didn?t figure your time into the costs.

Demand for all classics has risen for sure, but the high profile sale of a few stunningly restored cars doesn?t suddenly turn a ratty Elan into a pot of gold. My S3 Coupe was worth maybe ?10k last year, and that?s probably what it?s worth today, maybe a few hundred more and it would sell tomorrow rather than next month.

One thing that is changing with rising demand is the rising cost of restoration combined with longer lead times. There are only a handful of restorers that know how to restore an Elan properly, and many more who will make a real pig?s ear of a mess with the car. The good ones are well known, and there?s quite a queue to get a car finished by them. I?m talking about tow-in drive-out cheque book restorations, rather than niche specialists like Option 1 for painting. And it?s those full professional restorations which are largely resulting in the cars that command the top prices.

The bottom line is that a perfect as-new Elan for ?30k - ?40k is pretty good value. Spend that on a new Elise or BMW or Audi and in 5 years time you?ll have a car worth nothing, whereas the Elan, if looked after, will still have most if not all of it?s value. Maybe a wee bit more!

OK, the Elise would still be worth quite a lot really, but you get my drift!!!!

Mark

[Bahamayellow]

I bought a tatty S4 from Mattys and whilst it was a runner and very original it didn't take long to realise how much a restoration was going to cost. I then saw a nice bahama yellow sprint at reasonable money at Mattys again so I part ex'd the car and Paul gave me back pretty well what I paid for the S4. The sprint is a nice car and the body was restored by SMS but it has a few paint chips but otherwise is a very nice car with it's original interior etc. Paul at the time showed me the French Blue S4 he has for nearly ?30k and the yellow Sprint that was about ?30k to show me what fully restored cars look like. Now I must say whilst the bodywork was tremendous I thought it was a real shame that all the interior, seats, dashboard etc was new and carbs etc were also new. As well as being smitten with my Elan I also own a 63 Cooper 'S' and love classic motorbikes and I pointed out to Paul that if I renewed everything on either of those they would not only be worth half their value but would be known as replicas In fact if I did that to my bike I would be beaten with a wet fish !!

The mini coopers went through all this with owners renewing 90% of the cars and taking them on trailers to concours shows back in the 90's but then a tatty car with pretty much everything original turned up at the National event and the car was beseiged with onlookers. Now there is a real drive to save as much as possible although owners do quite rightly use period upgrades/enhancements to improve the cars performance. When my mini was restored I had it repainted but kept the original paint behind the dashboard, the original seats, boot board etc in fact anything that could be used was kept even if slightly tatty although anything structural suspension arm etc was replaced or upgraded. I like the fact that when I drive the car the chap who originally bought the car sat in the same seat held the same wheel and planted his right foot on the same pedal. I also like the fact that the rear seat has a little tear aand the small dink in the grille is from an accident in 1978 all adds charachter in my opinion. I am not saying cars should be preserved as i regularly take mine out for a good thrashing as that's what I bought them for in the first place but keeping the cars original is important to me.

I also like the same about my sprint in that I sit in the same seat that the original owner drove off the forecourt in. It still retains its running in sticker on the window and has the dealers brass plaque on the glove box. I am sure that the Elan market will go the same way and values will eventually increase for original cars as opposed to cheque book restorations or perhaps I have it completely wrong As i'm relatively new to the world of Elans I wonder what other owners think?

[Elanintheforest]

I think that you?re talking about another category again, Mike, and for me, an original, un-restored car or motorbike in good condition with a bit of ?patina? is the ultimate condition. But it?s also incredibly rare, especially in Elans it seems. I met up with three guys at the Lotus show who still had their Elans that they bought from new. Each one has been quite modified over the years, and not just in the 70s. One had just put injection on his S4 after 40 years of messing about with Strombergs. Many Elans had paint problems when they were new, and few made it past a couple of years without some sort of paint rectification. When used in the winter as an everyday car, a chassis would often be required after 6 or so years, and it wasn't unheard of for a twincam engine or two to let go!

Elans, Lotus Cortinas and Cooper S cars were all bought by enthusiasts I guess, and by the time the 2nd or 3rd owner got hold of the car, he usually had more enthusiasm than cash, and the cars were inevitably hacked about. When I bought my 1964 970 Cooper S in 1972 (!) it had been hand painted in yellow, and the tired 970 had been replaced with a Cooper engine?luckily the 970 still came with the car. It was 7 years old and a complete rot-box, and that was quite common. Not bad for ?25 though!! It was only the rare looked-after cars that made it past their 10th birthday, and most of those were subsequently butchered.

I managed to find a one owner Mk 1 Escort Mexico a couple of years ago that had been tucked away by it?s original owner, and it survived in totally original and rust free condition. That was mainly because he?d had the car ziebarted from new, as Escorts were probably even worse than Minis at rusting. They really were only designed for a 3 years life, and nearly half of them didn?t make it to that. I did have to remove some of the period Halfords goodies though, like the stick-on heated rear screen thing, and the plastic wiper wings that held the wipers to the screen at speed (i.e., over 60!). Apart from that, it?s totally original with some nice period mods as well, and I just love that.

I?ve just noticed that you are slowly disclosing some more of your collection?a Brough! My favourite ever bike?what?s the story? Don?t tell me that?s original and unrestored and perfect??.

Mark

[Bahamayellow]

Hi Mark

I understand what you mean most Mini and Elans have had replacemnt engines and had enhancements etc but I like to keep as much as possible original on the car. I am of the don't replace it if it ain't broke school and whilst some concours anoraks will say oooh you've got a dent in that grille I can say it's been on the car since new. Ok if it's totally knackered and affects the look of the car then I will replace it. My sprint has a roll cage, adjustable shocks and solid driveshafts which I think are sensible upgrades. Mind you whatever people want to do to their own car is up to them- it is after all theirs I just follow the original route

In terms of the Brough it's an SS80 and yes it's pretty well original. It was involved in an accident in 1966 which bent the front of the frame and was dismantled put into boxes and forgotten about. It has only had three owners who all lived within 5 miles of each other I bought it from the next owner who bought it to restore and put back on the road but probably discovered the frame had had an impact and then sold it on to me who also missed the damage as the whole lot had been stove enameled. Nevertheless after having a club member point it out and panicking he reassured me that 80% of Broughs have been dinked at some time and the clubs technical chap straightened the frame back out. He was amazed when he took one of the tubes out and found the original frame lug pins that the factory used to hold the frame in the lugs whilst they brazed the tubes were sitting at the bottom of the tube and he re-used these to braze the frame back up once he had straightened and jigged the frame back together. Expensive? No ?400 did the job The frame, engine, forks etc are all matching numbers, even the footrests and stand are stamped with the same frame number by the factory and all are correct and present. All I have to do is put it back together. The forks are being refurbed by a chap who used to work on Broughs in the 50's and to give you an idea how fast they work in the Vintage bike world he has had the forks well over 12 months but as everyone points out he will do a 'proper job'.