Investment values

[tyasman]

Just for a change, here's a non mechanical question. I love my '70 S4, but it's becoming increasingly expensive to fill her with petrol etc. Given the fact that we are going into a recession, and it's difficult to find a safe place to put money, what do Elan owners think will happen to the value of classic sports cars, particularly ours, over the next couple of years? Will they sink? I have seen good Elans going for low prices recently on sites such as Pistonheads. Will they hold their value? Will they rise? I'd be interested to hear your views, but no "rose-tinted spectacles" comments please.

[65 Lotus]

The Elan is ripe for modification and a lot of folks do just that. I would expect that the more original versions will increase in value as time marches on, thoughtfully modified versions will maintain their value without increasing too much, with the slash-and-burn or ratted-out examples losing a bit in the end.

This is just my biased opinion though with no data to back it up. I just know the rates I would be willing to pay for any vintage motorized vehicle be it an Elan or a Stearman.

[Elanintheforest]

I think that the good original or well restored cars will drop a bit, the projects will drop a lot, which will also pull down the middle ground cars.

I don't really see classic cars as any sort of long term investment, and the experience of the early 90s bears this out.

If you're enjoying the car, hang onto it. Trying to sell in a hurry over the next couple of years must mean you'd take a big hit on it, but on the other hand, it will be a great place to buy in the short term.

Mark

[elansprint]

I suspect your right the toys have to be justified it depends how many go on sale & if the seller has to sell. Having said that i have noticed the asking prices for +2's has got a lot higher over the last 12/18 months with the baby elan staying the same. Are the cars selling at the 10/12K end of the market. These are a highly underated car but some of the higher priced cars did not appear to be top condition.
Ian

[RichardS]

I agree with Mark - I don't think Elans or +2s are ever going to be a very sound investment from a financial "capital growth" point of view [but what else is at the moment!] but are a great investment in terms of enjoyment - well most of the time! Perhaps better to have your money in an Elan rather than an Icelandic bank....

There has been talk in the financial pages of the more expensive classic cars being "recession proof" and to me that is a sure sign that their values are likely to follow the trend of other investments ie down as they did in the early 1990s.

I bought my Sprint for ?3995 in 1982 and am in the process of getting it back on the road after an 18 year break. An investment of ?3995 in a building society in 1983 would be now worth ?13,526 at 5% pa which is probably what the car would be worth today if it was fully restored. The problem is I have spent rather a lot of ??? in the last 18 months to bring the car up to scratch and still have a way to go!

But ...... I took my wife on our first date in the Sprint back in 1982, went on honeymoon in the Sprint in 1983, took my son for his first ride when he was a few months old in 1986 ... so I could never sell and what price memories!

Better finish before I wax too lyrical.


Richard

[pereirac]

I was under the impression that 'good' classic cars were actually going up in value at the moment as people were looking for places other than banks to invest money. Whether we actually reach the silly values of the late 80s (I was offered ?24k for my Sprint - before I had a full bare shell respray) remains to be seen....

Carl

[aussieelan]

Investment values on motor vehicles in an interesting discussion I had recently with a couple of mates. One is an investment banker (drives a new Maserati) and the other a specialist in classic car sales (drives a Cayman).

The experience in Australia over the last few years has shown values for late 60?s, early 70?s muscle cars skyrocket. These cars, that are basically no more than factory special family cars, had topped out at upto $1,000,000 for some examples. Ridiculous money driven mainly by cashed up baby boomers indulging in toys ? cars they wanted when they were young. A lot of people made a lot of money from their old V8 Holdens and Fords. Recent financial issues have ended this boom with values for these cars dropping by 70% or more. Caught up in this craziness was such cars as Cooper S, E-Types, early 911?s, Morgans and such. Unfortunately the Lotus equivalents where more or less unaffected by these increases in value and prices out here have remained relatively steady.

Our conversations then turned to what was the next ?boom?. If you follow through the scenario of the next generation wanting cars that they couldn?t afford when they were young, you start to look at Mazda RX?s, Early Z cars, Mk2 RS Escorts, early M series BMW?s etc. I can?t really see Excels or Eclats becoming big $$ collector cars. The only exception may be Esprits, but due to the publics perception of Lotus cars during the 80?s these would be unlikely to become great investments.

As expressed in previous posts, good, clean original Elans should hold or increase in value at a steady rate, some may even argue that in the short term they may increase more as, relative to other sportscars of the era, they are well priced, and as the ?baby boomers? sell there ?expensive toys?, they may want to purchase a ?less expensive? toy.

In the words on SWMBO ?. ?Cars are just a depreciating asset, but atleast yours doesn?t have any petrol costs because most of the time it doesn?t run!?

[yandy]

... i have noticed the asking prices for +2's has got a lot higher over the last 12/18 months...

I must get out more, but in the meantime, below is a breakdown of +2 prices accessible over the internet and by other means covering the period from the beginning of 2008.

The caveats and excuses:

-UK selling cars only
-Full sample is 98 (over 10 months)
-Useable sample is 60
-Average price is ?8,313
-Classes have ?1,000 ranges up to 10 x the class title (e.g. a car for sale for ?7,300 is in price class 8 )
-These are mainly 'Asking Prices', so consider them optimistic to the extent of say 10% - probably more.
-Excludes Zetecs


OK, so not terribly helpful and raises more questions than it answers, but I thought I'd share this side-effect of my +2 hunting with y'all.

Remember: the value of your temperature guage can go down as well as up.

Andy

P.S. and as a special treat - attached also is the age distribution of the full sample. Who's hogging all the 'J's?

[Elanintheforest]

More importantly, Andy, where did the 'E' come from?! I guess that was LPW 120 E, chassis number 1, that was supposed to be for sale a few months ago. The only 'E' as far as I know.

I think that better Plus 2s have been offered for sale over the last 12 months rather than the price rising. A couple of years ago there was a huge number of ?2500 to ?3500 cars that sold on eBay, many of which were subsequently broken. That seems to have slowed down now, with the ?5000 to ?9000 mid-range cars appearing more often.

I've felt for a few years that Plus 2 prices are much the same as Elan S4 prices, it's just that the majority of Plus 2s are tired and tatty, and the majority of S4s aren't.

Paul Matty has just sold a S4 convertible for ?30,000. It?s a Peter Day restoration, finished off by Paul, and it is pretty much perfect, as you'd expect for that money. He also has a Plus 2 S 130/5, which is also a partially completed Peter Day restoration, and it looks stunning. Paul will be finishing that off and the price on the screen? ?30,000.

These are exceptional prices for exceptional cars, but folks are still willing to pay for top cars. It's less than the price of a new Elise after all, and I know which I'd rather have. Well, I wouldn't be on this forum if I'd have the Elise over the Elan, would I?

Mark

[yandy]

Correct, Mark - LPW is the 'E'. It isn't included in the pricing analysis though.

Nothing with an engine has sold for less than ?3,000 recently. Most of the middle range (5 - 9K) appear to be cars owned for a while, but now being sold on account of retirement or whatever - older restorations which vary widely in originality. A few examples in the upper mid-range are ones that appeared earlier at the lower ranges and have had a respray and some debugging - probably a good deal if you had been the person to buy them first time round.

Anything really special - recently properly restored for example, has been going (and apparently selling) for 13k+. The inbetweens have been good cars, that aren't necessarily very original.

Thus there is still the possibility to maintain or improve values for new owners and this could drive the creation of very high quality restorations. With the real junk now providing parts easily for restoration, especially for originality, then conditions could be right for a general increase in quality (and therefore reputation and value) of the remaining stock.

That sounds optimisitic! But if old petrol engines start being seen as the devil's tool, it call all go awry - the Blue Motion conversion plans may yet be the only way...