S4, Sprint and identification number

[rideaway]

Hi there,
I'm new to this forum and I don't speak English well! (you will have noticed it).
I bought, without taking too much care, the Lotus Elan Sprint with a strange chassis number. 01159 and engine number is 12345LBA referred to above
I know the end of the story of this car: it was rebuilt at Christopher Neil in 1988 with a galvanized Lotus chassis and a DHC body. Sold as a Sprint in Pistachio Green colorway.
The Sprint specs are there, exhaust, dash, badging, ''Knock On'' hub but the engine doesn't have the ''Big Valves'' valve cover.
The electrical part has been rebuilt with several additional fuses and relays. I have the ''Vehicle Registration Document'' form which indicates:
- Lotus Elan Coupe, color Yellow, VIN 01159, Engine n° L22249, date of registration 08.10.1971.
I did the following steps:
- Andy Graham from Lotus: couldn't find info on this car. The only info the original engine number (L22249) according to VDR corresponds to an S/E.
- Christopher Neil (Oakmere): no response to emails
- The person who bought the car from Christopher Neil is dead.
- The person who sold it to me didn't seem to know that the serial number is bogus.
Can anyone help me trace the history of this car?
- If the number is a clerical error, how is this possible when registering? (I don't know the English registration system)
- Would Christopher Neil have built this car from ''scratch'' and would have put any number? And that would be why he doesn't answer me.
Does anyone have any other leads or better yet, information.
Of course I bought this car for its drive and not for its origins, but I may have paid too much for it compared to its resale value.
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
Stéphane

[jcocking]

I split this post from another topic to provide better visibility.

[rideaway]

Actually, I wanted to post after this:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=40426[/url]

But it didn't go as planned!

[trw99]

Stephane,

I can add little more than my reply five years ago, as below:

"The VIN plate shown in the advert photos is not one made up by the factory, so you can not take it as an accurate reflection of the car you are considering. The engine is certainly an unoriginal one, since the S4 of this period, fitted with the L type engine, was equipped with Stromberg carburettors. This car has Webers and an earlier cam cover. An engine no of 2345 would have first been fitted to a late 1964 S2 Elan.

Given that the car began life as a late S4 Elan FHC, my guess is that the engine number on the registration document of L22249 is accurate and original. It fits in number wise with similarly aged cars.

Given that the number 01159 appears to be spurious, we might suppose that it reflects a typographical error somewhere along the line of it's ownership after leaving the factory. So I would guestimate that the car left the production line in 1970. That was after the new VIN recording system was introduced (1.1.70), so the full VIN would have the year, month and batch numbers before the all important Unit No, followed by a suffix model letter. We know that the car started life as a FHC, so it could only be a Type A (Standard FHC Domestic) or Type E (SE FHC Domestic). Therefore, assuming the L22249 engine number is correct, the car could only have been a Type E. Going back to the possible typo error, it is conceivable that the last figure 9 may be a prior misrepresentation of the letter E. That would give a Unit No of 0115E, which would make much more sense.

However, my records for Unit 0115E lack the original engine number, so I am unable to verify the Unit No. I can say that Unit No 0115E left the production line in June 1970. That the car was not first registered for the road until 8 Oct 71 in Leicester may be accounted for by the fact that the Sprint hit dealers in Mar 71, by which time the S4 had become the unloved older relative.

I suggest that you contact Andy Graham, the Lotus Archivist, to see if he can throw any additional light on the true Unit No for your car."

The only other thing that occurs to me is that Christopher Neil applied their CN Sprint parts to this S4 at some stage in the 1980/90s, but I fear that is a cul de sac in the truth of this car.

Tim

[rgh0]

Looks like it has been built using used parts probably from various cars and a Chris Neil Sprint kit. If you search this forum you will see discussions on the kits.

cheers
Rohan

[rideaway]

Thanks for your answers guys.

To answer Tim.
Track number 115E is falling apart as Lotus' Andy Graham gave me this answer
I don't believe this car is 0115E as that car was registered under a different registration number in 1997.
He tells me maybe 0115G but it was a DHC when it left the factory.
The L22249 engine corresponds to a high compression, small valves S/E engine.

Is it possible in England to register a kit car built like the CN Sprint without having a donor car serial number?

Which would make number 01159 an internal Christopher Neil number and not a Lotus number.
Could numbers on other parts of the car help with identification?

I will continue my quest by searching the forum on the track of CN Sprint kits.
I think someone who worked at Christopher Neil at the time could tell me, but where to find this person after all this time?

Have a good week-end

Stéphane

[Billelan]

Hi Stéphane
Have you looked for evidence of the original VIN number in different places on the car? Inside’s of the doors and top of the glovebox are places to look. My S4 has the VIN number clearly marked on the top surface of the glovebox along with a name. I presume this was the factory assembly guy.
Also have you checked for a body number near the solenoid in the engine bay. Although Andy Graham won’t be able to link this to a VIN number he should be able to tell you an approximate manufacturing date for the body.
Regards Bill

[rideaway]

Hello Bill,

I'm going to look in the glove box and in the doors. Where exactly in the doors?

There is no body number to the starter solenoid. But I know that the body was changed by Christopher Neil in 1988, at the same time as the chassis.

With Andy Graham, we explored the body number trail.

Thank you for your advice

Stéphane

[Billelan]

Hi
Mine was underneath the basket weave material near the internal door pull. If your body was replaced in 1988 then I suspect the doors will been changed as well. The glove box will be your best bet.
Regards Bill

[TBG]

"But I know that the body was changed by Christopher Neil in 1988, at the same time as the chassis."

New body new chassis? Not the same car then!!! D

[rideaway]

I'm afraid of it...

Although the car was not bought to be original to the last screw, but for the pleasure of driving an Elan

[elanfan1]

It’s almost certainly a CN Sprint, new shell and chassis with a donor engine and drivetrain, see:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23282

[rideaway]

Hello Steve,

That's what I think too.

But I wonder about the origin of the number: donor car or out of nowhere.
Has anyone else owned a CN Sprint?
Although I have the impression that it is very frowned upon on this forum.
I didn't think about all these authenticity issues when buying.

The lesson is learned the hard way!

Stéphane

[rgh0]

Elans are to be enjoyed for the driving they should not be treated as museum pieces and in any case there is no such thing as an "original" Elan as every car had subtle variations due to their hand built penny pinching construction nature. This whole numbers matching originality stuff is best left to others to worry about while we actually just enjoy our Elans for what they are.

There is nothing wrong with a Chris Neil sprint and it will be as good if not better than many other sprints to drive.

just my opinion

cheers
Rohan

[TBG]

Spot on Rohan! D