which way the bevel on the flywheel ring gear ?

[peg_pilot]

Since I am rebuilding my engine and have everything apart on the
bench, I thought it would be simple and smart to replace my worn ring
gear. Alas, the supplier of the ring gear says the bevel side goes
one way, and the shop I took it to to get it installed says the other
way. Both state their cases with conviction. I know from the archives
that a number of people have replaced their ring gears, so please
tell me. From the back (clutch) side, looking forward at a tooth on
the top of the flywheel as it rotates to the left, does the bevel
(that is, the beveled side of the tooth) go on the left side (upwind
as the flywheel rotates) or right side (to leeward) ?

[Foxie]

The bevel on the ring gear teeth is to facilitate engagement of the starter pinion. Since on the Lotus, the pinion comes from the rear, the bevel on the ring gear should face rearward. I've just had a check look at an engine I have out right now to confirm this.
(I wouldn't be able to say if this this to windward or leeward !)

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: peg_pilot
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 2:38 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] which way the bevel on the flywheel ring gear ?


Since I am rebuilding my engine and have everything apart on the
bench, I thought it would be simple and smart to replace my worn ring
gear. Alas, the supplier of the ring gear says the bevel side goes
one way, and the shop I took it to to get it installed says the other
way. Both state their cases with conviction. I know from the archives
that a number of people have replaced their ring gears, so please
tell me. From the back (clutch) side, looking forward at a tooth on
the top of the flywheel as it rotates to the left, does the bevel
(that is, the beveled side of the tooth) go on the left side (upwind
as the flywheel rotates) or right side (to leeward) ?

[type36lotus]

If you have one of the newer starters in which the pinion enters
from the front (as do most, if not all curent starters) then the
bevel is forward. So I guess to sum it up; Bevel side to pinion
entry side.

Mike Geiger
66 Elan S3 Coupe'

--- In ***@***.***, "Sean Murray" <snmurray@i...>
wrote:

rear, the bevel on the ring gear should face rearward. I've just
had a check look at an engine I have out right now to confirm this.

[Bill]

I changed over to a Nissan truck starter 2 years ago - the pinion engages from the front now but the origional ring gear is bevelled to the rear for the old starter pinion. It doesn't seem to matter it worrks well - probably carving its own bevel on the front side now.

26/0538

[Arno Church]

If you use the so called pre engaged starter , then there is no need for
bevels on the ring gear. It is only the inertia starters, like the original
Elan starters that need bevels
In inertia starters , the Bendix gear starts spinning the moment the
solenoid tells the starter to spin, hence the bendix is already turning when
its gear gets to the ring gear. Bevels make for an easy mating - Note the
bendix gear teeth are also bevelled
The pre engaged starter first engages the ring gear and then starts
spinning. Here only the bendix gears require a slight bevel

Have both types sitting on my bench at the moment
Arno

[zman521]

I use the Japanese starter. At least it beats the ring gear on the
flywheel instead of off as was the case of the orignal.

[lotustony]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Rathlef" <***@***.***>



I'd be interested in what Bill and other listers find is the "best value"
conversion starter for a twin-cam?

Tony in Texas

[simonknee]

New/recon Lucas with 10-tooth bendix, cost about a tenner!
They're not that bad really, honest.

Simon in Streatham (doesn't have the same ring does it!)

-----Original Message-----
From: Elton Clark [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Sun, Aug 17, 2003 21:24
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] which way the bevel on the flywheel ring gear ?




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Rathlef" <***@***.***>



I'd be interested in what Bill and other listers find is the "best value"
conversion starter for a twin-cam?

Tony in Texas

[jopalm]

On Sun, 2003-08-17 at 13:23, Elton Clark wrote:

Tony-

FWIW, I've had very good luck with the gear reduction starter sold by
Dave Bean. http://davebean.com/specials4.htm#GEAR At $179 it wasn't
much more than the (lesser?) alternatives. It bolted right up with no
difficulties and my Elan has been starting with great eagerness ever
since.

This coupled with the Nippondenso (sp?) alternator conversion (a little
further down the page from the starter...) are the two best mods I've
made for modern day reliability. I've *never* been left with a car that
wouldn't crank & start...

Regards,
-John
'69 Lotus Elan S4 DHC 45/8290
'74 1/2 Jensen Healey #18918

[Foxie]

I have experienced a particular problem with Lucas starters over the years. They work reasonably well most of the time. Then on occasion they struggle to turn the engine. Try again some time later and everything works OK again. I have suspected batteries, poor connections, solenoid, earths etc., but I've checked and eliminated all these.

I've just rebuilt a twincam, 1798cc, 10.5 CR, turning over freely by hand. I refitted the normal (Lucas) starter. It was really struggling, even with jump leads to a running car. I decided to try and get to the root of this problem. I substituted an unused recon starter I had bought some time ago. This displayed the same fault, sometimes spinning OK , sometimes struggling. To eliminate other possible causes, I connected jump leads directly to the starter terminal, but the fault was still there. I dismantled the starter, the brushes were almost new, I cleaned off the copper dust, polished the commutator. No improvement. I tested the stall torque by putting the starters in a vice. The nearly new unit gave 4 Nm, the recon unit gave 10Nm. I am now going to try a reduction gear starter from Burtonpower, quoted torque is 25Nm. They assure me is a bolt-on fitting to the twincam, with no need to fit reversed ring gear. It has a 9 tooth pinion.

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has had similar experiences.

BTW, just clocked up 36 miles so far on the new engine, but needed a tow start when I stalled at a junction today !

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Knee
To: '***@***.***'
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] which way the bevel on the flywheel ring gear ?


New/recon Lucas with 10-tooth bendix, cost about a tenner!
They're not that bad really, honest.

Simon in Streatham (doesn't have the same ring does it!)

[elancoupe]

I had nightmarish problems with Lucas starters on my worn out stock TC when
I bought it, replaced pinions 3 times, hot start problems and numerous
episodes of no starting and such. I put in a gear reduction starter in 1985,
have had perfect starter performance ever since. A great investment.

Mike Braun
1966 S3 FHC

I have experienced a particular problem with Lucas starters over the years.
They work reasonably well most of the time. Then on occasion they struggle
to turn the engine. Try again some time later and everything works OK
again. I have suspected batteries, poor connections, solenoid, earths
etc., but I've checked and eliminated all these.

I've just rebuilt a twincam, 1798cc, 10.5 CR, turning over freely by hand.
I refitted the normal (Lucas) starter. It was really struggling, even with
jump leads to a running car. I decided to try and get to the root of this
problem. I substituted an unused recon starter I had bought some time ago.
This displayed the same fault, sometimes spinning OK , sometimes
struggling. To eliminate other possible causes, I connected jump leads
directly to the starter terminal, but the fault was still there. I
dismantled the starter, the brushes were almost new, I cleaned off the
copper dust, polished the commutator. No improvement. I tested the stall
torque by putting the starters in a vice. The nearly new unit gave 4 Nm,
the recon unit gave 10Nm. I am now going to try a reduction gear starter
from Burtonpower, quoted torque is 25Nm. They assure me is a bolt-on
fitting to the twincam, with no need to fit reversed ring gear. It has a 9
tooth pinion.

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has had similar experiences.

BTW, just clocked up 36 miles so far on the new engine, but needed a tow
start when I stalled at a junction today !

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Knee
To: '***@***.***'
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] which way the bevel on the flywheel ring gear
?


New/recon Lucas with 10-tooth bendix, cost about a tenner!
They're not that bad really, honest.

Simon in Streatham (doesn't have the same ring does it!)

[Bill]

Texas Tony

Good to hear that you have an S1 still kicking along, it must have been imported from England /Europe at some time. Did you import it from your overseas service? I figure it would have been built in spring/summer of 1963. Right or left hand drive?

So you ARE almost as old as me I take it!

Starters.
---I thinnk that R and D as well as others have Nippon adapted starters for approx $180.00 now. Mine was a local club member adaption that was affordable in the ara of DB being $500 or so for the $50 buck Jap starter. I can fax a drawing of the Alum. adaptor plate to suit if you wish.

Bill

[lotustony]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Rathlef"


built in spring/summer of 1963. Right or left hand drive?<<<

It's a left-drive S1 with the full width dash and six tail-lights # 0395. I
THINK it was originally sold by the Dallas dealer, "Lotus Southwest" but I
bought it used in '73.

Tony in Texas

[types26/36]

Hi Sean,
Just interested in how you got to 1798cc, 85mm pistons? or did you
go higher? 1600 block I presume? with what crank? 77.62 or did you
stroke it?
Regards Brian.
64Elan/72Sprint/J.P.S.Europa

In ***@***.***, "Sean Murray" <snmurray@i...> wrote:

[BillGavin]

Sean -

Did you check the condition of the armature bushings? I've had
similar problems when they start to wear and the armature is
not properly located with respect to the brushes and the field
windings.

I solved the problem on my Elan with one of Keith Gustafson's
gear reduction starters.

- Bill