S4 Radiator change

[holywood3645]

I would like to install a larger radiator. Any advice. S2/S3 type?
Alloy? or. I have heard of VW Scricco and XR3 escort radiators being
installed. I live in S California, and the indicated temperature got
~220F last week in traffic. Outside temp was ~88F. There is a S2/3
RAD on e-bay for $230! Is this a good price or should I consider an
alloy replacement. Ive been told getting the standard S4 recored and
modified to a 4 row setup would work.....

[fjselan at aol.com]

i had overheating problems with my S3. Found an eight blade plastic fan ex a
cortina and bought a spal electric fan. No more problems even if it gets hot
in northern california too.

[TimMullen]

holywood3645 wrote:

Many years ago - late '70s my S4 Sprint used to overheat in
the San Bernardino area of Southern California (temperatures
often got higher than 100!!).

I had the stock radiator re-cored with a core that had an extra
row of tubes, using the original top and bottom header tanks.
The new core also had a slightly more denser fins than the original.
It cost me less than $50 at a local radiator shop, but that was
sometime around 1977...

My car never overheated again. The new core was slightly
thicker than the original radiator's core, and the original electric
fan interfered with the radiator, so I couldn't mount it back
up right away. The car never overheated again. I'm going to
get around to mounting that electric fan again one of these days...

Tim Mullen

Chantilly, VA
72 Elan Sprint

[LotuSport]

Sometime back I reported an overheating incident wherein my radiator
filler neck popped loose from the body of the radiator. I took that
as a sign the radiator needed to be reworked. Like Tim Mullen
reported on his, I had the radiator re-cored with a 4-row core. Took
a day to get it done.

I went a further step and had the core extended about an inch in
height, too. I put on a "Vornado" electric fan and a 13# pressure
cap (yes, I know stock is seven pounds). Bottom line is no
overheating, no symptoms of localized boiling of coolant, stock
thermostat works just fine, and I don't fear 100-degree-plus days any
more.

The re-core was inexpensive, about $130, and so much better with all-
new core, fittings, and thoroughly boiled-out top and bottom tanks.
I believe the one on eBay is overbid. If you need a new radiator, go
to a decent radiator shop and get yours remanufactured. Don't waste
money on someone's overpriced "slightly used" radiator.

An addendum: I recently took my old leaky gas tank to the same shop
to see if they could repair it. I've been using a tank borrowed from
a local friend for a year and searching out options. For $85, this
shop boiled out the tank, repaired leaks, finished the exterior with
rust-proofing paint, and double-coated the interior of the tank to
provide a permanently-sealed, flexible interior layer. I now have
200 miles of running with this tank, and it is _heaven_ to be
unworried about gasoline leakage and gas odors in the garage. Also
pretty neat to not have flecks of interior rust getting sucked into
the fuel line and plugging flow.

Best regards,
Bob
______________________________
***@***.***

[schwartzd13]

James,
Having gone through replacing cracked cylinder head and water pump
ailings last spring I have a strong recommendation that no matter what
you do with the radiator, you should install an electric fan up front.

I used to shudder at the thought of getting stuck in traffic (So Cal
also) cringing as I watched the temp gauge climb...Since the fan has
been in with its thermostatically controlled switching, I haven't seen
it go past 92C once. I was out running around today in traffic and 90
degree ambient temp with no worries--I was baking, but my engine wasn't,
for a change! It's the best $100 I've ever spent on my Elan (S4 DHC).

I got my kit from RD Enterprises in PA (no connection, etc, etc.)
installation was straightforward...The only problems relate to the
bonnet spring--getting it off and back on is a pain, and you can't open
the bonnet fully when the fan is running or the bracket for the spring
gets in the path of the spinning blades. I suppose you could find two
smaller fans and mount them on either side, but I didn't want to spend a
lot of time sourcing stuff. Hey listers, anybody out there had this same
experience and/or solutions?

-David
Manhattan Beach

[LotuSport]

--- In ***@***.***, "David S. Schwartz"
<d.schwartz13@v...> wrote:

David and all -

When I had mine re-cored and increased the height by an
inch, I also laid the radiator back by about an inch at
the top. No interference problem. Look at the first of
the pics of my car ("Bob M's..." - second file in the
photos section) and you can see how close the top is to
the engine. A stock fan wouldn't fit any more, but who
cares? The "Vornado" fan is fairly thin, too, but moves
plenty of air.

It's not too good an idea to fit two smaller fans. If they'll fit,
even on a diagonal, smaller fans won't move air through the same area
of radiator that a single larger fan will. (Two eight-inch fans will
cover 11% _less_ area than one 12" fan -- remember the formula for
area is pi times _r_ squared -- and you lose even more area to the
motor in the center, which isn't proportionally smaller in cross-
section).

HTH.

Best regards,
Bob
_______________________________
***@***.***

[Foxie]

I agree that one 12" fan will shift more air than two 8" ones, but the options available depend on the dimensions of the rad. The biggest single fan that will fit flush on the Plus 2 wide rad is 10", but there is room for two. I have two 10" Kenlowe fans on my Plus 2 wide radiator. See photo at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lo ... yahoo.com/

One is on auto control, the second is on manual. Alpine crossings and Paris/Milan traffic possible without any cooling stops !

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Metz
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:12 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: S4 Radiator change


--- In ***@***.***, "David S. Schwartz"
<d.schwartz13@v...> wrote:

David and all -
<snip>

It's not too good an idea to fit two smaller fans. If they'll fit,
even on a diagonal, smaller fans won't move air through the same area
of radiator that a single larger fan will. (Two eight-inch fans will
cover 11% _less_ area than one 12" fan -- remember the formula for
area is pi times _r_ squared -- and you lose even more area to the
motor in the center, which isn't proportionally smaller in cross-
section).

HTH.

Best regards,
Bob

[rgh0]

I have similarly replaced my S4 and plus 2S 130/5 radiators with a thicker 3
row core of standard height and width and a front mounted ducted fan. The
fan and ducting bolts to the radiator core and seals on the core so the air
the fan pushes must go through the radiator. Fan diameter about 1 inch
bigger than radiator height so it ovelaps slightly the bottom header tank.
Top of the radiator is seald with foam to the top of the hood by a foam
rubber strip glued to the hood. Bottom of the radiator sealed with a
galvanised sheet steel panel bolted to the 2 front chassis bolts. Large gaps
in radiator side panels to body at top and bottm each side also sealed with
foam blocks blocks that are just pushed into the gaps.

This handles continuous 160 hp plus engine output and 40 degree plus days on
the race track in the Elan as well as being stuck in heavy traffic on the
same 40degree C days with no overheating in the Plus 2.

ON the S4 I removed the front hood (bonnet) spring many years ago as I
rapidly got sick of holding up the hood with my head while working on the
engine. I glued a strip of 12 mm thick neoprene rubber ( the same as I used
between the body and chassis) to the front lip of the hood to keep it
properly located and stop it from moving versus the body itself. I lift the
hood merely by pushing down on the front edge, then remove the hood totaly
to work on the engine. I replaced the standard spring catches with pins
through the hood to add to the retention security and prevent accidental
release in racing.

Rohan

[Stu Booth]

Is their an easy way to tell how may rows of core are in the radiator?
What is stock radiator core configuration in a sprint and what is the
best configuration to use? I live in a hot, dry area (Walnut Creek,
CA) and I have kissed off driving in hot weather when the chance of
getting stuck in trafic exists.

Thanks,

Stu


--- In ***@***.***, "Rohan Hodges" <rghodge@o...> wrote:

[gjz30075]

--- In ***@***.***, "stubooth" <swbooth@p...> wrote:



Stu,
Open the rad cap and look inside. Count the tubes, front to rear. A
stock S4 radiator will have two rows, ie, a row of tubes in the front
and a row of tubes in the back. I've upgraded my Sprint's to 3 row
and added an electric fan from Pep Boys with one of those probe
type 'thermostats' that stick in the fins. Works fantastic.

Greg Z.
'72 Sprint

[s2lola]

Given all the radiator chatter, is there any reason that we aren't having
aluminum rads made for our cars (other than cost, originality). You could
go big on capacity, get the thermal benefits of aluminum, and still have a
lighter unit.

Any thoughts?

cheers,
Bill Tebbutt

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Zelazek [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 8:22 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: S4 Radiator change


--- In ***@***.***, "stubooth" <swbooth@p...> wrote:



Stu,
Open the rad cap and look inside. Count the tubes, front to rear. A
stock S4 radiator will have two rows, ie, a row of tubes in the front
and a row of tubes in the back. I've upgraded my Sprint's to 3 row
and added an electric fan from Pep Boys with one of those probe
type 'thermostats' that stick in the fins. Works fantastic.

Greg Z.
'72 Sprint













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[garyeanderson]

Hi Bill
Try this -

The following items were used an my S4 coupe to upgrade the cooling
system
MOROSO-63730 Cast aluminum, 1 1/2 in. hose to 1 1/2 in. hose,
radiator hose filler neck
1 1/2" I.D. section 3" to 6" long to connect thermostat housing to
Moroso - 63730
Napa 8661 Lower Radiator hose
Napa 8726 Upper radiator hose
Griffin 2-58185-H Scirocco double pass Right 1.25 #4 (no filler neck
on the radiator)this has two 1 1/4" rows of cooling tubes verses the
cheaper 2-28185-x that uses two rows of 1" tubes.
2 - 16" length's of 1" aluminum angle for brackets to support
radiator (length will depend on how much the radiator is moved
forward) front to rear and is does have to be moved forward to fit in
front of the stock horns. This is the last step in the install and
will mount to the top stock Scirocco mounts to the body to frame bolt
that goes into the shock tower.

Summit racing has this radiator in stock (part # GRI-2-58185-x) but
with a filler neck, it does fit in the Elan nose but limits how far
forward you can place the radiator. The mounting ears on the bottom
of the radiator need to be trimmed to fit slightly (about 1 1/4" off
of each end to reduce the overall width). I drilled a 5/16" hole in
each mounting ear and connected the lower hose(Napa 8661) to both
radiator and the water pump intake to locate the radiator front to
rear and then used around a 1" to 1 1/8" of rubber spacers to locate
it vertically. The upper radiator hose is cut at one end (the end
with the 90 degree bend, not the end with the 45 degree bend) and the
cut off section is used (cut off the 90 degree bend and you are left
with around 3" of 1 1/2" straight hose to connect the thermostat
gooseneck to the moroso filler neck. Finally drilling through and the
fiberglass in the bottom of the Elan nose for the bottom mounts when
I was satisfied with the location. 2 - 1 3/4" bolts through the holes
drilled in the radiator, rubber spacers, and fiberglass complete the
install. Total cost last week was $320 to summit for the radiator and
filler neck, and around $36 to Napa auto parts for the two hoses and
6 hose clamps. I will install a electric fan at a later date, but the
$180 for the duel fan and shroud was just not in the budget. Some day
I will post pictures, soon if I borrow a digital camera, much later
if I buy one.

Gary E. Anderson

--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote:

[Unibrain]

Gary,

I'd love to see the pics. Where are you located? I'm sure someone who
is near would be happy to take some pics.

garyeanderson wrote:


--
Jim
www.unibrain.org

[gjz30075]

--- In ***@***.***, Jim Boone <jim@u...> wrote:



Gary and all,
Absolutely I'd like to see the pics. The only downside to my three
row upgrade is weight. The radiator is really heavy.

Greg Z.
'72 Sprint, lookin' a lot less at the temp gauge.

[garyeanderson]

Massachusetts

--- In ***@***.***, Jim Boone <jim@u...> wrote: