Simon Knee's Fuming Problem

[donselan]

Simon,
Last autumn you were trying to resolve a problem with fumes entering
the cockpit. Did you resolve the problem? If so what was the final
resolution? I am working on the same problem.

All,
I can't decide whether there are always engine fumes and the answer
is to seal the cockpit as well as possible or whether the engine/
exhaust system is failing to contain the gases. I am concerned that
I may have excessive blow by which exits from the oil filler cap and
then enters the cockpit. I have good compression on all cylinders
(165 - 185 psi) but there seems to be a lot of gases in the cam
cover. What causes blow by if not the rings?

Don Fysh
67 S3 Coupe

[simonknee]

Still not quite there I have to say.
I think that the problem is caused by the freeflow vents sucking out air.
The lower internal pressure draws air in through any hole.
This winter I have found that if I keep the fan on all the time then I
(mainly) get fresh air and no fumes.
If I turn the fan off I get fumes.
In the summer I run with the windows down and this cures it too.

I believe you get a combination of exhaust and breather and traffic fumes.

The holes I have sealed up so far include:

All bulk head holes where cables and pipes pass into the engine bay.
Replaced the steering column seal.
Added an MGB style pipe to the drain tube on the heater intake box.
Sealed the gear gator (always get a lot in here)
Made the doorseals meet instead of having a small gap.
Ensured the exhaust pipe extended beyond the tailgate (could be longer)
Sealed the boot lid (put a torch/flashlight inside boot to see how leaky
it is)
The holes in the body at the top of the rear struts.
The hole the PO had made to access the diff oil.
The access hole for the gearbox oil.
The hole around the radio Arial

I have also run the breather down a tube to the floor (instead of to the
airbox)
Need to look at the exhaust again.
And still need to do a better job at the gear gator.

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: donselan <***@***.***> [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2003 17:46
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Simon,
Last autumn you were trying to resolve a problem with fumes entering
the cockpit. Did you resolve the problem? If so what was the final
resolution? I am working on the same problem.

All,
I can't decide whether there are always engine fumes and the answer
is to seal the cockpit as well as possible or whether the engine/
exhaust system is failing to contain the gases. I am concerned that
I may have excessive blow by which exits from the oil filler cap and
then enters the cockpit. I have good compression on all cylinders
(165 - 185 psi) but there seems to be a lot of gases in the cam
cover. What causes blow by if not the rings?

Don Fysh
67 S3 Coupe

["ed smith"]

The trunk, I would say, more than the firewall.

keith
--

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:12:21
Simon Knee wrote:

[ardee_selby]

--- In ***@***.***, Simon Knee <simon@a...> wrote:

Have you tried blanking them off temporarily to test it?

Richard

[donselan]

Simon
I'm sorry you lost your hubcap.

I have also been trying to seal up all entry points into the cockpit through the firewall, so far no success. I was hoping that you would be able to report success and share the magic answer.

I have a lot of fumes and at the end of my drive my clothes reek. This is not healthy. I am concerned about the CO concentration so I always drive with my windows down. I brought along a household CO monitor and get up to 60 ppm in the cockpit.

In my case I know that the extractor vents don't cause a lower internal pressure to draw in the fumes since I have an early coupe with no vents. I doknow that I have a lot of fumes under the bonnet and it seems to me that figuring out the cause and eliminating them or better controlling them should be the best answer.

Why did you run the breather down a tube to the floor rather than to the airboat? It seems to me that it would be better to keep this source of fumescontained. My crankcase vent used to be open with only that rubber elbow . I rerouted it to the airboat.

I am concerned that the fumes are escaping the oil cap in the cam cover. There seems to be a lot of pressure in there (blow by?) even though I have good compression on all cylinders.

Don
67 S3 Coupe with no extractor vents


----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Knee
To: '***@***.***'
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Still not quite there I have to say.
I think that the problem is caused by the freeflow vents sucking out air.
The lower internal pressure draws air in through any hole.
This winter I have found that if I keep the fan on all the time then I
(mainly) get fresh air and no fumes.
If I turn the fan off I get fumes.
In the summer I run with the windows down and this cures it too.

I believe you get a combination of exhaust and breather and traffic fumes.

The holes I have sealed up so far include:

All bulk head holes where cables and pipes pass into the engine bay.
Replaced the steering column seal.
Added an MGB style pipe to the drain tube on the heater intake box.
Sealed the gear gator (always get a lot in here)
Made the doorseals meet instead of having a small gap.
Ensured the exhaust pipe extended beyond the tailgate (could be longer)
Sealed the boot lid (put a torch/flashlight inside boot to see how leaky
it is)
The holes in the body at the top of the rear struts.
The hole the PO had made to access the diff oil.
The access hole for the gearbox oil.
The hole around the radio Arial

I have also run the breather down a tube to the floor (instead of to the
airbox)
Need to look at the exhaust again.
And still need to do a better job at the gear gator.

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: donselan <***@***.***> [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2003 17:46
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Simon,
Last autumn you were trying to resolve a problem with fumes entering
the cockpit. Did you resolve the problem? If so what was the final
resolution? I am working on the same problem.

All,
I can't decide whether there are always engine fumes and the answer
is to seal the cockpit as well as possible or whether the engine/
exhaust system is failing to contain the gases. I am concerned that
I may have excessive blow by which exits from the oil filler cap and
then enters the cockpit. I have good compression on all cylinders
(165 - 185 psi) but there seems to be a lot of gases in the cam
cover. What causes blow by if not the rings?

Don Fysh
67 S3 Coupe

[donselan]

In the foregoing message read "airbox" in place of "airboat"....spell checker gone crazy.

Don
----- Original Message -----
From: dfysh
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Simon
I'm sorry you lost your hubcap.

I have also been trying to seal up all entry points into the cockpit through the firewall, so far no success. I was hoping that you would be able to report success and share the magic answer.

I have a lot of fumes and at the end of my drive my clothes reek. This is not healthy. I am concerned about the CO concentration so I always drivewith my windows down. I brought along a household CO monitor and get up to 60 ppm in the cockpit.

In my case I know that the extractor vents don't cause a lower internal pressure to draw in the fumes since I have an early coupe with no vents. I do know that I have a lot of fumes under the bonnet and it seems to me thatfiguring out the cause and eliminating them or better controlling them should be the best answer.

Why did you run the breather down a tube to the floor rather than to the airboat? It seems to me that it would be better to keep this source of fumes contained. My crankcase vent used to be open with only that rubber elbow . I rerouted it to the airboat.

I am concerned that the fumes are escaping the oil cap in the cam cover. There seems to be a lot of pressure in there (blow by?) even though I havegood compression on all cylinders.

Don
67 S3 Coupe with no extractor vents


----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Knee
To: '***@***.***'
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Still not quite there I have to say.
I think that the problem is caused by the freeflow vents sucking out air.
The lower internal pressure draws air in through any hole.
This winter I have found that if I keep the fan on all the time then I
(mainly) get fresh air and no fumes.
If I turn the fan off I get fumes.
In the summer I run with the windows down and this cures it too.

I believe you get a combination of exhaust and breather and traffic fumes.

The holes I have sealed up so far include:

All bulk head holes where cables and pipes pass into the engine bay.
Replaced the steering column seal.
Added an MGB style pipe to the drain tube on the heater intake box.
Sealed the gear gator (always get a lot in here)
Made the doorseals meet instead of having a small gap.
Ensured the exhaust pipe extended beyond the tailgate (could be longer)
Sealed the boot lid (put a torch/flashlight inside boot to see how leaky
it is)
The holes in the body at the top of the rear struts.
The hole the PO had made to access the diff oil.
The access hole for the gearbox oil.
The hole around the radio Arial

I have also run the breather down a tube to the floor (instead of to the
airbox)
Need to look at the exhaust again.
And still need to do a better job at the gear gator.

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: donselan <***@***.***> [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2003 17:46
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Simon,
Last autumn you were trying to resolve a problem with fumes entering
the cockpit. Did you resolve the problem? If so what was the final
resolution? I am working on the same problem.

All,
I can't decide whether there are always engine fumes and the answer
is to seal the cockpit as well as possible or whether the engine/
exhaust system is failing to contain the gases. I am concerned that
I may have excessive blow by which exits from the oil filler cap and
then enters the cockpit. I have good compression on all cylinders
(165 - 185 psi) but there seems to be a lot of gases in the cam
cover. What causes blow by if not the rings?

Don Fysh
67 S3 Coupe

[simonknee]

I'm doing a longer email with a bit more thought put into it as I forgot
some things I found out.
Please hold you breath (helps with the fumes too)

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: dfysh [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2003 02:44
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


In the foregoing message read "airbox" in place of "airboat"....spell
checker gone crazy.

Don
----- Original Message -----
From: dfysh
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Simon
I'm sorry you lost your hubcap.

I have also been trying to seal up all entry points into the cockpit
through the firewall, so far no success. I was hoping that you would be
able to report success and share the magic answer.

I have a lot of fumes and at the end of my drive my clothes reek. This is
not healthy. I am concerned about the CO concentration so I always drive
with my windows down. I brought along a household CO monitor and get up to
60 ppm in the cockpit.

In my case I know that the extractor vents don't cause a lower internal
pressure to draw in the fumes since I have an early coupe with no vents. I
do know that I have a lot of fumes under the bonnet and it seems to me that
figuring out the cause and eliminating them or better controlling them
should be the best answer.

Why did you run the breather down a tube to the floor rather than to the
airboat? It seems to me that it would be better to keep this source of
fumes contained. My crankcase vent used to be open with only that rubber
elbow . I rerouted it to the airboat.

I am concerned that the fumes are escaping the oil cap in the cam cover.
There seems to be a lot of pressure in there (blow by?) even though I have
good compression on all cylinders.

Don
67 S3 Coupe with no extractor vents


----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Knee
To: '***@***.***'
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Still not quite there I have to say.
I think that the problem is caused by the freeflow vents sucking out
air.
The lower internal pressure draws air in through any hole.
This winter I have found that if I keep the fan on all the time then I
(mainly) get fresh air and no fumes.
If I turn the fan off I get fumes.
In the summer I run with the windows down and this cures it too.

I believe you get a combination of exhaust and breather and traffic
fumes.

The holes I have sealed up so far include:

All bulk head holes where cables and pipes pass into the engine bay.
Replaced the steering column seal.
Added an MGB style pipe to the drain tube on the heater intake box.
Sealed the gear gator (always get a lot in here)
Made the doorseals meet instead of having a small gap.
Ensured the exhaust pipe extended beyond the tailgate (could be
longer)
Sealed the boot lid (put a torch/flashlight inside boot to see how
leaky
it is)
The holes in the body at the top of the rear struts.
The hole the PO had made to access the diff oil.
The access hole for the gearbox oil.
The hole around the radio Arial

I have also run the breather down a tube to the floor (instead of to the
airbox)
Need to look at the exhaust again.
And still need to do a better job at the gear gator.

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: donselan <***@***.***> [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2003 17:46
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Simon Knee's Fuming Problem


Simon,
Last autumn you were trying to resolve a problem with fumes entering
the cockpit. Did you resolve the problem? If so what was the final
resolution? I am working on the same problem.

All,
I can't decide whether there are always engine fumes and the answer
is to seal the cockpit as well as possible or whether the engine/
exhaust system is failing to contain the gases. I am concerned that
I may have excessive blow by which exits from the oil filler cap and
then enters the cockpit. I have good compression on all cylinders
(165 - 185 psi) but there seems to be a lot of gases in the cam
cover. What causes blow by if not the rings?

Don Fysh
67 S3 Coupe

["A1 Paul"]

hi

I too have noticed high fume levels in both ?lan's and +2's

Are any ?lans fume free? or is it a design feature?

I too can reduce fumes by having the heater fan on.

I noticed a new boot seal was the most effective in reducing fumes.(not
completely)

regards

paul


_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool emoticons http://messenger.msn.co.uk

[D Feller]

One MUST have cockpit pressure higher than the
pressure of the fumes. They are very sneaky. My
early Elan has no flow-through. It also has
inadequate air intake. I opened the cockpit air
intake as much as possible without damaging the body.
This helped some. My next plan is to attach a small
scoop. The next task is to keep fumes from entering
through the cockpit air intake. I suggest carefully
gasketing the rear of the hood (bonnet). Closed cell
foam like polyethylene might block the fumes better
than open cell foam but may be too stiff. The
original is open cell. When the engine compartment
becomes fume-laden, the engine air intake and fan may
push the fumes out the hood opening right into the
cockpit air intake. The cockpit air intake is in the
best location, I believe. I owned 2 Studebakers with
low side-mounted air intakes. In traffic they were
terrible for catching fumes from just above the
pavement.

Dave

-- "ardee_selby <***@***.***>"
<***@***.***> wrote:


__________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com