Donuts v UJs

[cliveyboy]

Has anyone any experience of replacing the Rotoflexs with UJs.I see Tony
Thompson sells them is there any one else?
Also http://sjsportscars.co.uk have an on line catalogue which is worth a
look for Elan as well as all other Lotus
parts.
Thanks
Clive
________________________________________________________________________

[Dag-Henning]

Clive , Spyder Engineering deliver as well, either UJs both ends or just outer together with splined shaft. Works well for me...
Dag / S1
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: clive baker <***@***.***>
Til: ***@***.*** <***@***.***>
Dato: 27. april 2000 15:01
Emne: [LotusElan.net] Donuts v UJs

["Peter Boegli"]

FWIW: Spyder Engineering sells driveshafts with a constant velocity joint on
the inside and a rotoflex on the outside (or vice versa). One rotoflex is
kept to cushion surge, so the diff exit shafts are supposed to survive
better. The CV joint absorbs driveshaft length variation when the suspension
moves, reducing stress to the rotoflex. And there is no stick-slip problem
with the sliding splines under torque. I did not try these driveshafts, but
the theory behinds sounds plausible.

And yes: I do _not_ have any connection to Spyder Engineering...

Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: clive baker <***@***.***>

Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 2:00 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Donuts v UJs

[brettengelaz]

My Elan had been converted to use all CV
joints (VW Bus?) by the PO to eliminate the Doughnuts
as required by the SCCA and now some of the
vintage groups. I believe he purchased conversion kit
from Dave Bean Eng. Since the joints are std VW parts,
out here (AZ) in the land of Dune Buggies, there's a
a store in nearly every small town that will stock them.

While I haven't seen any wear of the splines, I have
needed to replace the 4 bolts on the drive-
shaft flange, two had definitely been distorted
by the engine torque..no measureable wear on the
CV's though.


-----Original Message-----
From: clive baker [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 5:01 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Donuts v UJs


Has anyone any experience of replacing the Rotoflexs with UJs.I see Tony
Thompson sells them is there any one else?
Also http://sjsportscars.co.uk have an on line catalogue which is worth a
look for Elan as well as all other Lotus
parts.
Thanks
Clive
________________________________________________________________________



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[cliveyboy]

Thanks Brett (and all the others that replied)
I am intrigued to know more about your conversion.Has it eliminated all four
Donuts and if so are UJs used as well as CVs.I phoned Spyder who were very
helpful and gave me a full run down of their system.In brief:-
The original ford system had a lot longer shafts coming out of the diff and
so because of their length had just enough flex.However when Lotus modified
it the shafts from the diff became very short and so the Donuts had to be
installed to allow flexing.Spyder reckon just using all UJs puts extra load
into the diff and reduces its life due to no in/out movement that a sliding
splined shaft would give.So spyder use one UJ and keep one Donut they add a
small stub onto the shaft to go inside the Donut which greatly reduces wind
up and also stops the shaft from flying about if the Donut fails.Their
latest system now uses a CV instead of a UJ.
And the price 450+tax= 530 pounds a pair
Tony Thompson racing http://tonythompsonracing.co.uk
sells a system for 360pounds + tax but I have yet to phone him up to find
out what system he uses.
Happy Lotusing
Clive


________________________________________________________________________

[brettengelaz]

Clive:

My conversion has VW CV joints at _both_ ends of the axle,
new stubs out of the diff and new outer axles which match
the VW bolt pattern. With everything "solid", I wonder
what will be the weak link. I have the close-ratio gearbox
with a very tall first, resulting in less torque to the
axles than the regular box from a standing start.

Stay tuned, I will have it back on the PIR track
on 5/13-14. We'll see what breaks....


-----Original Message-----
From: clive baker [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 12:30 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Donuts v UJs


Thanks Brett (and all the others that replied)
I am intrigued to know more about your conversion.Has it eliminated all four

Donuts and if so are UJs used as well as CVs.I phoned Spyder who were very
helpful and gave me a full run down of their system.In brief:-
The original ford system had a lot longer shafts coming out of the diff and
so because of their length had just enough flex.However when Lotus modified
it the shafts from the diff became very short and so the Donuts had to be
installed to allow flexing.Spyder reckon just using all UJs puts extra load
into the diff and reduces its life due to no in/out movement that a sliding
splined shaft would give.So spyder use one UJ and keep one Donut they add a
small stub onto the shaft to go inside the Donut which greatly reduces wind
up and also stops the shaft from flying about if the Donut fails.Their
latest system now uses a CV instead of a UJ.
And the price 450+tax= 530 pounds a pair
Tony Thompson racing http://tonythompsonracing.co.uk
sells a system for 360pounds + tax but I have yet to phone him up to find
out what system he uses.
Happy Lotusing
Clive


________________________________________________________________________



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[ettaled]

Hi
Regarding the use of CV joints,
When I purchased my Elan in 85, the PO had blown out the Right rear inner
rotoflex. Although he replaced it, I promptly installed the CV kit from Dave
Bean. It replaces all four rotoflexes and also gives you a replacement stub
axles for the diff. The outboard stubs are retained and a adapter plate
installed.
Well, it's been over 15 years and I've had complete trouble free service
from these CV's. I've been able to take long drives (San Francisco to San
Diego), autocrosses, short jumps to the store... In short, the $800 bucks I
spent back then was well worth the continuous enjoyment from my Elan the
past 15 years and more.
jimbo

[ecamiel]

Brett.
I have a similar system, about 20 years old, custom made. I snapped the
original axles but the replacements have lasted over 12 years including
many racing laps with race tires. I did have to limit the droop on the
rear suspension to prevent bind in the cv's. I also had to build up the
outer axles to fit the bearings.
Who made your system and how can I contact them?
Thanks
Eric

[ecamiel]

Brett Engel wrote:

[brettengelaz]

Eric:
I believe mine were procured from Dave Bean in California. The
car has a Spydersport frame _and_ the Spyder A-arm conversion
in the rear which limits the droop. I intend to return to the
Chapman struts, but, I really like the handling of the A-arm rear
suspension. How did you change the full-droop stop? on the
Spyder rear end, the damper acts as the stop.

BTW: I think the pic's of the Spyder rear hubs and A-arms
are still on the website, if not I can send them to you...

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Camiel [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:37 PM
To: Brett Engel; ***@***.***
Subject: cv joints


Brett.
I have a similar system, about 20 years old, custom made. I snapped the
original axles but the replacements have lasted over 12 years including
many racing laps with race tires. I did have to limit the droop on the
rear suspension to prevent bind in the cv's. I also had to build up the
outer axles to fit the bearings.
Who made your system and how can I contact them?
Thanks
Eric

[Foxie]

Hi guys,

My two cents on the Spyder rear double link:

I have installed this along with the Spyder chassis. I found the handling
of the car better. However I was disappointed to find out that the
"adjustable" spring perches on the Spax shocks could not be used to
significantly lower the car, as the brake disk made contact with the upper
A arm. Also there is a rubber strip "bump stop" glued on on the chassis
which stops the upper arm (at the cross bar on the A) which didn't last too
long.

I had to cut off and reweld in correct position the spring/shock mount on
one side of the Spyder hub as it was out of line both vertically and
axially, causing the spring to contact the brake disc. A Spyder Monday
Morning job no doubt.

The Spyder rear CV joints run on and on and on............

Just fitted a rollbar for FIA approval in the Plus 2, details later.

Brett: BTW why are you changing back to the Chapman struts ?

Sean Murray

Lotus Elan +2S

Heading for Prague in September !


-----Original Message-----
From: Brett Engel <***@***.***>
To: '***@***.***' <***@***.***>; Brett Engel
<***@***.***>; ***@***.*** <***@***.***>
Date: 28 April 2000 22:32
Subject: [LotusElan.net] RE: cv joints

[brettengelaz]

Sean:
There have been some questions regarding the "legality"
of the Spyder rear suspension in several Vintage racing
groups. Usually, the SCCA General Competition Rules and
Production Car Specs for your year car are used to
determine it's status...In my case the 67 rules disallow
moving the original suspension pivot points..
That said, there are considerable variances at times. In
the 80's my car had been raced in the VARA Group 1, the most "original" of
the classes, with the Spyder rear.
Now I'm being told I may need to return to the Struts...
In the meantime, it just great fun to run the NASA Street groups
at Phoenix International and play fox to the BMW M-roadsters
hounds..

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Murray [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 4:53 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] RE: cv joints


Hi guys,

My two cents on the Spyder rear double link:

I have installed this along with the Spyder chassis. I found the handling
of the car better. However I was disappointed to find out that the
"adjustable" spring perches on the Spax shocks could not be used to
significantly lower the car, as the brake disk made contact with the upper
A arm. Also there is a rubber strip "bump stop" glued on on the chassis
which stops the upper arm (at the cross bar on the A) which didn't last too
long.

I had to cut off and reweld in correct position the spring/shock mount on
one side of the Spyder hub as it was out of line both vertically and
axially, causing the spring to contact the brake disc. A Spyder Monday
Morning job no doubt.

The Spyder rear CV joints run on and on and on............

Just fitted a rollbar for FIA approval in the Plus 2, details later.

Brett: BTW why are you changing back to the Chapman struts ?

Sean Murray

Lotus Elan +2S

Heading for Prague in September !


-----Original Message-----
From: Brett Engel <***@***.***>
To: '***@***.***' <***@***.***>; Brett Engel
<***@***.***>; ***@***.*** <***@***.***>
Date: 28 April 2000 22:32
Subject: [LotusElan.net] RE: cv joints




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