Lotus Elan

Fiberglass foot well meltdown from Headers, Lots of smoke

PostPost by: "mooremfg" » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:56 pm

For some reason, (This has never happened before) after starting my
1970 Elan S4 SE after re wiring it, The headers got so hot, it melted
my drivers side footwell box. The box next to the headers melted,
smoked and it is now distorted. It now has a big bulge about 2" x3"
closer to the headers right where the steering shaft comes out. Now
the box is within 3/4" of the header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20
minutes, and no more smoke or melting. Now I need to fix the
fiberglass box, cut out the bulge, repair, and now I wish to install a
heat sheild all across the foot well/header area.. Any ideas how to do
this?,, What heat sheild material to use,, Ect.. Why did the headers
get so hot?? Thanks in advance..
"mooremfg"
 

PostPost by: s2lola » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:02 pm

Are you sure that the headers are intact? Has a weld/seam let go, close to
the fibreglass, where heat flow is now unrestricted? If the motor was
otherwise running OK, I'd look for this type of failure first.

If all is OK above, then exhaust temps are way way high (mixture totally
leaned out?).

Good lesson to the rest of us - of course, you had your car-mounted
extinguisher handy, didn't you? Let us know the cause of the problem.

Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt

-----Original Message-----
From: mooremfg [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/06/20 10:57
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Fiberglass foot well meltdown from Headers, Lots of
smoke


For some reason, (This has never happened before) after starting my
1970 Elan S4 SE after re wiring it, The headers got so hot, it melted
my drivers side footwell box. The box next to the headers melted,
smoked and it is now distorted. It now has a big bulge about 2" x3"
closer to the headers right where the steering shaft comes out. Now
the box is within 3/4" of the header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20
minutes, and no more smoke or melting. Now I need to fix the
fiberglass box, cut out the bulge, repair, and now I wish to install a
heat sheild all across the foot well/header area.. Any ideas how to do
this?,, What heat sheild material to use,, Ect.. Why did the headers
get so hot?? Thanks in advance..







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PostPost by: TYPE45 at aol.com » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:29 pm

I'm with Bill on this. Fuel mixture is too lean.

As far as a shield is concerned, I used an aluminum "Bakelite" baking pan
which is basically two sheets of aluminum with an air space in between. The
pans come in various sizes and I cut one to fit on the inside of the chassis near
the exhaust. I screwed it to the chassis with some sheet metal screws. I
know it doesn't cover the upper part of the footwell, but this modification made
all the difference that was necessary. Good luck.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
TYPE45 at aol.com
 

PostPost by: archigator » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:41 pm

I had the same thing occur when my plastic washer hose brushed up
against the header and started a small confligration under the hood
at the foot box as I pulled onto the field at a local British car
show! With extinguisher in hand, I quickly put it out. (Won third
place in the Lotus class for my performance, and purchased a second
extinguisher at the show for my trip home!) I have subsequently
found a reflective heat shield material with an adhesive backing at
the local speed shop... about $20US for a 2 foot square piece. Trim
to fit, really easy to install, and gives me some piece of mind.

Gary
'71 Sprint Coupe
___________________________________________________________________

The headers got so hot, it melted my drivers side footwell box. The
box next to the headers melted, smoked and it is now distorted. It
now has a big bulge about 2" x3" closer to the headers right where
the steering shaft comes out. Now the box is within 3/4" of the
header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20 minutes, and no more smoke or
melting. Now I need to fix the fiberglass box, cut out the bulge,
repair, and now I wish to install a heat sheild all across the foot
well/header area.. Any ideas how to do this?,, What heat sheild
material to use,, Ect..
User avatar
archigator
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PostPost by: "mooremfg" » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:38 pm

This is why I love elan.net, many of you have experience with
this .. As far as the cause, I am sure the fuel mix is too lean, we
are now just getting the car up and running after 2 months of dry
dock rewiring the dash harness.

The car runs like crap right now.. Undrivable,,,,I have an
ignition problem, first my Pertronix points failed to work, I then
changed to NEW breaker points, new condensor, spark plug wires, new
rotor..Etc. We tried to start,, NO GO, I then unhooked the tach wire
(from coil,,negative, to tach position 3( i have disabled the anti
theft switch) It fired right up when the tach wire was removed from
the coil. But still running rough,,missing, and the way too hot
headers.. One peculiar item is when the key is turned to start, the
car wont fire, but as soon as you back off the key to normal running
position, it runs fine..My solenoid may not be releasing..I did have
to raise the idle screw a bit..

My guess is my Pertronix points were fine, I may have missed
something re wiring the dash harness.. Something is funny in the
wiring is my guess. Any ideas??
GOOD NEWS,, The fiberglass foot box is FINE, I looked inside
the footwell and noticed the bulge, curve, towards the headers is
factory correct so the steering column impact clamp will clear if
adjusted that high up the column. The fiberglass is intact and
strong. , Just a small burn on the interior jute insulation and a
few fibers burned on the outside footwell box. No distortion, no
repair needed, I will install NEW space age heat sheild matting
inside the footwell, and a Heat shield outside between the headers
and the footwell box. Looks like I have 5/8" of clearance now,,Yes,
I had the fire extinguisher ready, and started the car 5 feet from a
garden hose. Lots of smoke, but no real damage..Tim Moore 1970 Elan
DHC S4 SE..
"mooremfg"
 

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:48 pm

mooremfg wrote:

This is why I love elan.net, many of you have experience with
this ..

I bought some (expensive) heat shield material from a well known UK race
parts seller, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be adhesive
glass-fibre matting with ally kitchen foil stuck on one side!

When I had the engine out I got some paint-on stuff for the manifold
(header?) which aims to do the same job as Jetex, I had to bake it on
with a blow-lamp because our oven did not get hot enough (and my wife
was not impressed when she saw what I was doing!). I seems to work OK
but I imagine Jetex would be better, and more expensive of course.

btw, if your mixture is that lean, prepare to say good-bye to your
piston crowns if you run it for long.
Cheers,
Pete
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PostPost by: dlbarnes1 » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:09 pm

Recheck ignition timing. It might be significantly retarded.
Dave 72 Sprint DHC
----- Original Message -----
From: mooremfg
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:38 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] headers to hot, fiberglass footwell meltdown. UPDATE




" But still running rough,,missing, and the way too hot
headers....I did have to raise the idle screw a bit.. "









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PostPost by: lotuselan2 » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:47 am

My bet is on the glass fiber and Ali mat for better insulation if put on the
item to be shielded and not on the manifold. Header coatings keep some heat
in the gas inside to keep velocity up, not to keep adjacent surfaces cool.



Ken

'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR

_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Pete Taylor
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 3:49 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] headers to hot, fiberglass footwell meltdown.
UPDATE



mooremfg wrote:

This is why I love elan.net, many of you have experience with
this ..

I bought some (expensive) heat shield material from a well known UK race
parts seller, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be adhesive
glass-fibre matting with ally kitchen foil stuck on one side!

When I had the engine out I got some paint-on stuff for the manifold
(header?) which aims to do the same job as Jetex, I had to bake it on
with a blow-lamp because our oven did not get hot enough (and my wife
was not impressed when she saw what I was doing!). I seems to work OK
but I imagine Jetex would be better, and more expensive of course.

btw, if your mixture is that lean, prepare to say good-bye to your
piston crowns if you run it for long.
Cheers,
Pete






To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:





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'69 Lotus Elan +2 with Cosworth BDR
'84 Ferrari 400i
'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:17 pm

I use the glass fibre and aluminium heat hield mat stuck to the
footwell adjacent to the headers. The self adhesive stuff tends to
unstick over time as the adhesive is not really heat resistant ( silly
for a heat shield is it not !). I buy non adhesive heat shield and
stick it on with high temp silicone sealant, the read or copper
coloured stuff.

I also use exhaust wrapping tape on my headers but I only have about
3mm clearance to the footwell with the large bore headers I use so I
need all the help I can get.

Rohan
In God I trust.... All others please bring data
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PostPost by: Will Grainger » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:59 pm

Might also be worth checking to make sure you have the 1 inch spacers
on the header-side motor mount. Without them the exhaust is too close
to the footwell.

-Will Grainger
45/9693


Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:56:32 -0000
From: "mooremfg" <***@***.***>
Subject: Fiberglass foot well meltdown from Headers, Lots of smoke

For some reason, (This has never happened before) after starting my
1970 Elan S4 SE after re wiring it, The headers got so hot, it melted
my drivers side footwell box. The box next to the headers melted,
smoked and it is now distorted. It now has a big bulge about 2" x3"
closer to the headers right where the steering shaft comes out. Now
the box is within 3/4" of the header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20
minutes, and no more smoke or melting. Now I need to fix the
fiberglass box, cut out the bulge, repair, and now I wish to install a
heat sheild all across the foot well/header area.. Any ideas how to do
this?,, What heat sheild material to use,, Ect.. Why did the headers
get so hot?? Thanks in advance..
Will Grainger
 

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