Lotus Elan

fuel cell +2

PostPost by: rdssdi » Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:06 pm

I am planning to install a fuel cell into my 1969 Elan +2. I have already
designed the "cage" to hold the fuel cell container. I have also purchased the
aluminum "tube"( Square, rectangular and angle) to make this "cage". It
should be completed by next week. I will post photos if anyone is interested. The
new cell will hold approx. 12 U.S. gallons. I believe the original capacity
is 15.6 U.S. gallons.

I have always been concerned with the location of the OEM tank and its
vulnerability in the event of an accident. Primarily vulnerable is the filler
tube. As the filler tube enters the tank at mid height, the potential is great
for a large spill resulting from a small impact with minor tank damage. The
tank has good protection as it is located between the shock "towers". Although,
with the fuel tank "inside" the car, a small amount of leakage could be a
major problem.

Has anyone installed a fuel cell into their road car? Is it a practical
idea? I know it will require maintenance but I feel the safety factor makes it a
worthwhile endeavor.

Thanks

Bob
1969 Elan +2
rdssdi
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPost by: tvacc » Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:33 pm

I have put a bunch of cells in my Elans.and I put 3 cells in Sevens.



You can take your regular can and have Fuel Safe put a cell in it. With a
remote filler.you have them put in a one way valve in the top of the tank.
That solves the problem of the remote filler being taken off in an impact.



The absolute safest way to put the filler in the boot.but a little
inconvenient.



I have numerous pictures on the LOONY site. www.lotusowners.com
<http://www.lotusowners.com/> Go to the repairs/upgrades link.



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 4:07 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] fuel cell +2



I am planning to install a fuel cell into my 1969 Elan +2. I have already
designed the "cage" to hold the fuel cell container. I have also purchased
the
aluminum "tube"( Square, rectangular and angle) to make this "cage". It
should be completed by next week. I will post photos if anyone is
interested. The
new cell will hold approx. 12 U.S. gallons. I believe the original capacity

is 15.6 U.S. gallons.

I have always been concerned with the location of the OEM tank and its
vulnerability in the event of an accident. Primarily vulnerable is the
filler
tube. As the filler tube enters the tank at mid height, the potential is
great
for a large spill resulting from a small impact with minor tank damage.
The
tank has good protection as it is located between the shock "towers".
Although,
with the fuel tank "inside" the car, a small amount of leakage could be a
major problem.

Has anyone installed a fuel cell into their road car? Is it a practical
idea? I know it will require maintenance but I feel the safety factor makes
it a
worthwhile endeavor.

Thanks

Bob
1969 Elan +2











To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

Copyright) LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: rdssdi » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:23 am

The "remote filler" will enter on the top of the cell. This is customary as
well as a flapper valve at the inlet as well as a ball valve on the vent. To
"bladderize" the stock tank the filler would enter on the side at mid height.
To place a standard size cell in the trunk and fill by opening the trunk is
not acceptable to me. I wish to maintain the original filler and maintain the
standard trunk.

I understand the fuel bladder material will allow "fumes" to pass through
and into the container. I have been advised that the container lid will have to
be sealed and the container vented to the outside. Strangely the VP of sales
at ATL told me that they do not vent the container but I could seal the lid.
I am concerned that a build up of residue and moisture could develop over a
long period of time. A race car is usually serviced annually so this "problem"
is not an issue. If ATL makes the cell I will spec a container vent.

Bob
1969 Elan +2
rdssdi
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPost by: tvacc » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:05 am

Ok..



First.you can put the filler anywhere you want to. Fuelsafe will even make
up an alum can the exact same size.as I recall..that was cheap.like $100 or
so extra over the cost of the cell.



That is what I recommend. You can then put the filler anywhere you want.on
the top..on the side.etc. You just tell them where you want it.



Yes,..all of the cells I did do leak a little smell to the boot. Not enough
to worry about. . You cannot seal the container.as the cell expands as it
fills..and it flexes.



You are needlessly worrying about smell.fumes.On my Fuel Safe cells.it is
not that bad.



I never used ATL.as when I asked them about custom cells back in the early
nineties.they did not do them. There is no question that if you can use a
stock size.it is cheaper.

But I liked to keep the look and feel of the car original and unless you
lift up the carpet in my Elan.you don't even know there is a cell in there.
It looks like it is just an alum can.with FueSafe written on the top.



I would call Harold Lawrence at Fuel Safe.if he is still there. I have not
spoke to him in several years. Get several quotes. I like Fuel Safe a lot.
Nice guys.



There is not anybody else that has put more cells in Elans than me. Like I
said..I think I did 5 or 6..then I did 3 In Sevens. Now that is not saying I
am right.but I just have had a lot of experience doing so.



You will have to vent it.which was always a problem for me. The one way
check valves never seem to work for me..and they lock up..closed. I have
bought vent checks from
FuelSafe.,..Pegasus.and they all fail for me. I always just run an open
tube.



You are very wise to put a cell in an Elan..I know in the early Elan
S2-Sprints..the tanks sits right over the muffler. I often wondered what
would happen if I got rear ended. I never did. Time in a burn ward is very
bad time.and the cell should give you enough time to get out of the car..and
not explode on impact. But you never know. Look what happened to Dale
Earnhardt last year at Daytona in the Corvette..



Good luck



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 5:24 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] fuel cell +2



The "remote filler" will enter on the top of the cell. This is customary as

well as a flapper valve at the inlet as well as a ball valve on the vent.
To
"bladderize" the stock tank the filler would enter on the side at mid
height.
To place a standard size cell in the trunk and fill by opening the trunk is

not acceptable to me. I wish to maintain the original filler and maintain
the
standard trunk.

I understand the fuel bladder material will allow "fumes" to pass through
and into the container. I have been advised that the container lid will have
to
be sealed and the container vented to the outside. Strangely the VP of sales

at ATL told me that they do not vent the container but I could seal the
lid.
I am concerned that a build up of residue and moisture could develop over a

long period of time. A race car is usually serviced annually so this
"problem"
is not an issue. If ATL makes the cell I will spec a container vent.

Bob
1969 Elan +2









To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

Copyright) LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: archigator » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:10 am

Bob,

I'm planning to do the same in my Elan Sprint road car. The Nov/Dec
2004 issue of Vintage Motorsport magazine (US) has a very thorough
article on fuel cells and the various ways that they are constructed
by different manufacturers. (All fuel cells are not created equal.)
Doing a little further research, I found that Fuel Safe
(www.fuelsafe.com) has a custom-shaped vintage Elan cell with a 10-12
gallon procell bladder, aluminum container and sending unit for
$1,577.00. Certainly not cheap, but beats being toast in a wreck...
(I have no personal interest in promoting any mftr.) There are less
expensive cells that are not custom designed to fit the Elan, and are
basically box shaped, but function the same.

Gary McGraw
'71 Elan Sprint

__________________________________________________________________

Has anyone installed a fuel cell into their road car? Is it a
practical idea? I know it will require maintenance but I feel the
safety factor makes it a worthwhile endeavor

Thanks

Bob
1969 Elan +2
User avatar
archigator
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 549
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Location: Miami (down where the old gators play), Florida

PostPost by: rdssdi » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:13 am

ATL quoted 1200+ for the custom size cell.

I have calculated a size of 25" X 22" X 6". The filler is most properly done
from the top. This way the filler elbows and pipes are empty most of the
time and better protected.

I will post photos when the frame is completed. I will ask fuel safe to bid.
I too have found them to be most helpful and friendly.

bob
rdssdi
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPost by: rdssdi » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:17 am

I wonder where the Elan cell fits? Does it utilize the original filler or do
you have to open the trunk to fill it.

The +2 fuel tank is entirely different and requires a bit of engineering.

I wonder why the "usual Suspects" (Dave Bean, RD, JAE etc.) have never
developed these items for Lotus.

Bob
rdssdi
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPost by: tvacc » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:21 am

I give you one guess where Fuel Safe got its design for the Elan Cell. They
did not even know what an Elan was when I first contacted them. They were
doing mostly airplanes and boats.



When I got mine made back in the early nineties..they were under $600. Wow.



On the last 2 Elan cells I had Fuel Safe do..I had them take 1 inch off the
height so I could put down a wooden "floor" for the boot. I was always
worried about luggage..parts.etc.on a long trip wearing through the alum can
and them puncture the bladder.



I have had parts vibrate a hole in Alum on a long trip...



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Gary
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:10 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: fuel cell



Bob,

I'm planning to do the same in my Elan Sprint road car. The Nov/Dec
2004 issue of Vintage Motorsport magazine (US) has a very thorough
article on fuel cells and the various ways that they are constructed
by different manufacturers. (All fuel cells are not created equal.)
Doing a little further research, I found that Fuel Safe
(www.fuelsafe.com) has a custom-shaped vintage Elan cell with a 10-12
gallon procell bladder, aluminum container and sending unit for
$1,577.00. Certainly not cheap, but beats being toast in a wreck...
(I have no personal interest in promoting any mftr.) There are less
expensive cells that are not custom designed to fit the Elan, and are
basically box shaped, but function the same.

Gary McGraw
'71 Elan Sprint

__________________________________________________________________

Has anyone installed a fuel cell into their road car? Is it a
practical idea? I know it will require maintenance but I feel the
safety factor makes it a worthwhile endeavor

Thanks

Bob
1969 Elan +2








To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: tvacc » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:25 am

The Elan fills right like the original tank.from the top(or forward) right
corner.



Bean,,,,JAE have done these for the same reason I did not.liability. Fuel
Safe wanted me to be a dealer..no way.



You think if one of these things results in a death.those guys don't get
sued?



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:17 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: fuel cell



I wonder where the Elan cell fits? Does it utilize the original filler or
do
you have to open the trunk to fill it.

The +2 fuel tank is entirely different and requires a bit of engineering.

I wonder why the "usual Suspects" (Dave Bean, RD, JAE etc.) have never
developed these items for Lotus.

Bob









To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

Copyright) LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: tvacc » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:26 am

Oh.you don't have to open the trunk to fill it.I think I have pictures on
the website.let me check.



http://www.lotusowners.com/72ElanFuelCell.htm



Here it is..



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:17 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: fuel cell



I wonder where the Elan cell fits? Does it utilize the original filler or
do
you have to open the trunk to fill it.

The +2 fuel tank is entirely different and requires a bit of engineering.

I wonder why the "usual Suspects" (Dave Bean, RD, JAE etc.) have never
developed these items for Lotus.

Bob









To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

Copyright) LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: archigator » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:31 am

Tony,

Fuel Safe faxed me a copy of their Elan cell. Must be the one you
worked out with them... small world! The tank shown is 8 7/8" x 16"
x 22 1/2", and has a fuel neck to match up with the Elan external
gas cap so it is fueled from the exterior like the stock tank.

I bought a replacement fuel tank custom made by Dave Bean in the
early 90's, but its not a fuel cell. Still looks like new, but not so
safe.

Gary
'71 Elan Sprint

___________________________________________________________________

I give you one guess where Fuel Safe got its design for the Elan
Cell. They did not even know what an Elan was when I first
contacted them. ..I had them take 1 inch off the height so I could
put down a wooden "floor" for the boot.


Tony V
User avatar
archigator
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 549
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Location: Miami (down where the old gators play), Florida

PostPost by: rdssdi » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:31 am

I assume there is a liability concern. I have no faith in juries.

I wonder if Lotus was ever sued as the original fuel tanks are certainly not
that safe.

Bob
rdssdi
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPost by: tvacc » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:38 am

Ah..but nobody said the original tanks were supposed to be safe. Yet.if you
buy a cell..there is an assumption of safety.



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:31 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: fuel cell



I assume there is a liability concern. I have no faith in juries.

I wonder if Lotus was ever sued as the original fuel tanks are certainly
not
that safe.

Bob









To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

Copyright) LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: rdssdi » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:43 am

But still an assumption of risk. As well as maintenance.

bob
rdssdi
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPost by: tvacc » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:46 am

Yes.small world.



I gave them design for the Elan cell and the Seven Cell.no question.



The Elan cell went through 3 or 4 revisions.back and forth the cell
went.from my home in Buffalo NY to at that time..Southern Cal. (they are now
in Oregon I think)..



They even replaced for free 2 bad cans.they were really are nice guys. I
find it hard to believe the price has tripled since I first did mine. Of
course.. I also spent about 3K with them the first go around with the Elan
cells....and then another 3K when I had the Seven cells made.



By the time I had them do the JPE cell for my Seven..(this is a cell that
fits right behind the rear bulkhead) ..I had them sign a letter stating I
had the rights to the design..and they would not sell it without checking
with me.



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Gary
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:32 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: fuel cell



Tony,

Fuel Safe faxed me a copy of their Elan cell. Must be the one you
worked out with them... small world! The tank shown is 8 7/8" x 16"
x 22 1/2", and has a fuel neck to match up with the Elan external
gas cap so it is fueled from the exterior like the stock tank.

I bought a replacement fuel tank custom made by Dave Bean in the
early 90's, but its not a fuel cell. Still looks like new, but not so
safe.

Gary
'71 Elan Sprint

___________________________________________________________________

I give you one guess where Fuel Safe got its design for the Elan
Cell. They did not even know what an Elan was when I first
contacted them. ..I had them take 1 inch off the height so I could
put down a wooden "floor" for the boot.


Tony V









To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: checkrail, ianthomson72 and 22 guests