Relays for windows

[charles jackson]

I am rewiring my Elan and thinking of putting relays on the window
motors. After a quick search of the arhives, I found some discussion,
but no details. I assume it would be straightforward - power to the
relay, switch to the relay turn power on. Anybody done this? Anything I
should look out for?
Thanks

Bob Bulfin, Auburn, AL
69 Elan S4 DHC
71 Europa S2

[daves56]

Bob,

Before you install relays try adding braided cable between the window
motor ground and chassis ground. The cable I used was about 1" wide,
1/16" thick and made a big difference. Whereas, if you use relays
without beefing up the wiring you may not see much change.



Good Luck,

Dave Sutcliffe

69' +2

77' Esprit V8





-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bulfin [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:42 PM
To: elan group; europalist
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows



I am rewiring my Elan and thinking of putting relays on the window
motors. After a quick search of the arhives, I found some discussion,
but no details. I assume it would be straightforward - power to the
relay, switch to the relay turn power on. Anybody done this? Anything I
should look out for?
Thanks

Bob Bulfin, Auburn, AL
69 Elan S4 DHC
71 Europa S2















_____

[thewris]

Bob,
I've done this mod with good results. I just placed a schematic up on the
Yahoo Files area called "Elan - modifies wiring.pdf"
It's the entire car, look on page3 for the dash/cockpit wiring.

Pete Wrisley
Hollis, NH USA
1969 S4SE

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bulfin [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 1:42 PM
To: elan group; europalist
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


I am rewiring my Elan and thinking of putting relays on the window motors.
After a quick search of the arhives, I found some discussion, but no
details. I assume it would be straightforward - power to the relay, switch
to the relay turn power on. Anybody done this? Anything I should look out
for?
Thanks

Bob Bulfin, Auburn, AL
69 Elan S4 DHC
71 Europa S2

[Esprit2]

Bob,

Yeah, it's pretty straight forward. Just use heavy duty, high-current
relays.

I have a circuit drawn for adding relays... one version specifically for
the Esprit S2 and one sorta leaning toward the Europa TC. If you're
comfortable with wiring, either one should give you the general idea. I
can send them to you as file attachments, or give me some time and I'll
post them to the Files section.

Waytek Wire as all the bits you will need... good Bosch HD relays,
sockets, wire terminals...
***@***.*** e-mail
www.waytekwire.com website / online ordering

Relays are on pages 52-53 of the catalog I have handy.

Later,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bulfin" <***@***.***>
To: "elan group" <***@***.***>; "europalist"
<***@***.***>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows

[ElanontheWolds]

1" wide, 1/16" thick?

How do you feed anything of a larger diameter through the door check
tube?

-----Original Message-----
From: Sutcliffe, David [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 21 January 2005 19:02
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Bob,

Before you install relays try adding braided cable between the window
motor ground and chassis ground. The cable I used was about 1" wide,
1/16" thick and made a big difference. Whereas, if you use relays
without beefing up the wiring you may not see much change.



Good Luck,

Dave Sutcliffe

69' +2

77' Esprit V8





-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bulfin [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:42 PM
To: elan group; europalist
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows



I am rewiring my Elan and thinking of putting relays on the window
motors. After a quick search of the arhives, I found some discussion,
but no details. I assume it would be straightforward - power to the
relay, switch to the relay turn power on. Anybody done this? Anything I
should look out for?
Thanks

Bob Bulfin, Auburn, AL
69 Elan S4 DHC
71 Europa S2















_____














CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:

[kandmpc]

Hello Bob, I have my window motors operating via relays. I used
modern 40A rated relays from an Auto-electrics supplier. No problems.

Ken

[Elanman99]

Dave

In what way does the thick braid help?

As far as I know the motor current flows only through the two leads that go
to the brushes in the motor. The body of the motor is only grounded to
reduce interference with the radio.

Ian Phillips



-----Original Message-----
From: Sutcliffe, David [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 7:02 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows



Bob,

Before you install relays try adding braided cable between the window
motor ground and chassis ground. The cable I used was about 1" wide,
1/16" thick and made a big difference. Whereas, if you use relays
without beefing up the wiring you may not see much change.



Good Luck,

Dave Sutcliffe

69' +2

77' Esprit V8





-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bulfin [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:42 PM
To: elan group; europalist
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows



I am rewiring my Elan and thinking of putting relays on the window
motors. After a quick search of the arhives, I found some discussion,
but no details. I assume it would be straightforward - power to the
relay, switch to the relay turn power on. Anybody done this? Anything I
should look out for?
Thanks

Bob Bulfin, Auburn, AL
69 Elan S4 DHC
71 Europa S2















_____

[elanplus2]

Hi Bob,

I have done this with he success, but:
1) make sure you run a high current heavy wire from your fuse box to
the relay as a high current positive feed, the relay switching comes
from your window switch, and then run a heavier wire through to the
motor. A good earth is essential

It's the heavier wire allowing a higher current flow that does the
trick. Running relays with only factory thickness wiring will make no
difference.

Ray

[thewris]

Absolutely right - notice on the schematic I posted to Yahoo that I call out
28-strand wire for the power feed to the relays and from the relays to the
motors.
The heavier gauge wire, combined with relays which are designed to carry the
current drawn by the motors (rather than the pitifully inadequate switches)
is the key to reliable, and likely somewhat faster, window operation.

Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Edwards [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:39 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Hi Bob,

I have done this with he success, but:
1) make sure you run a high current heavy wire from your fuse box to the
relay as a high current positive feed, the relay switching comes from your
window switch, and then run a heavier wire through to the motor. A good
earth is essential

It's the heavier wire allowing a higher current flow that does the trick.
Running relays with only factory thickness wiring will make no difference.

Ray

[elansprint71]

What is this word "heavy"? Not Chapmanspeak, I believe. Anyone out there successfully converted motorised windows to manual winders?

Pete.
Add more lightness, flood the fen, keep your stick on the ice. Gidday mates.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Wrisley
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Absolutely right - notice on the schematic I posted to Yahoo that I call out
28-strand wire for the power feed to the relays and from the relays to the
motors.
The heavier gauge wire, combined with relays which are designed to carry the
current drawn by the motors (rather than the pitifully inadequate switches)
is the key to reliable, and likely somewhat faster, window operation.

Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Edwards [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:39 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Hi Bob,

I have done this with he success, but:
1) make sure you run a high current heavy wire from your fuse box to the
relay as a high current positive feed, the relay switching comes from your
window switch, and then run a heavier wire through to the motor. A good
earth is essential

It's the heavier wire allowing a higher current flow that does the trick.
Running relays with only factory thickness wiring will make no difference.

Ray

["e s"]

Not to defend lucas, but relays do one thing and one thing only: protect the switch. AFAIK switches are not a failure point. Run a 14 ga wire from thefusebox[they are unfused IIRC] and frm the switch to the window motors. Itis about 18 ga now. Good ground also


Oh try greasing the freaking things too.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Wrisley" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:46:57 -0500

[Elan45]

Wow, I can't believe I was just thinking of doing this just this afternoon,because I'm having so much trouble w/ getting my RH window up on my SS DHC.

You're right about running the heavy wire to feed the relay/ motor power and my thoughts would be the relays have to mount inside the door, so you need only one feed wire in, 2 trigger wires from the switch and probably a good idea to enlarge the ground wire.

I've pretty much diagnosed my problem to the switch on the dash, window goes down fine, up is the problem. I've had the motor back apart last summer and cleaned the commutator, which is the perenial motor problem. My test light was bright when the switch was down, but dim in up position.

Sounds like whatever I do, the dash gets to come out!

Roger


I am rewiring my Elan and thinking of putting relays on the window
motors. After a quick search of the arhives, I found some discussion,
but no details. I assume it would be straightforward - power to the
relay, switch to the relay turn power on. Anybody done this? Anything I
should look out for?
Thanks

Bob Bulfin, Auburn, AL
69 Elan S4 DHC
71 Europa S2























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[thewris]

Mmmmm.... Well, I won't generalize, but I disassembled the switches (if you
try this at home kids, be careful of all the little springy bits - I'm a
professional. Electrical Engineer, that is...) and found that the contacts
were badly scorched. I emery clothed them and that got me through the rest
of the season OK, but now I don't worry about it. It sure looked like the
switches were dealing with more current/inductive load than they were
designed to handle.

-Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: e s [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:40 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Not to defend lucas, but relays do one thing and one thing only: protect the
switch. AFAIK switches are not a failure point. Run a 14 ga wire from the
fusebox[they are unfused IIRC] and frm the switch to the window motors. It
is about 18 ga now. Good ground also


Oh try greasing the freaking things too.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Wrisley" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:46:57 -0500

[thewris]

Oh - and by the way, this is certainly not an attack on Lucas electrics.
The Lucas automotive electrical systems are the most robust and easily
repaired of any vintage electrics I've worked on (including German.
Especially German).

Not a Majority Opinion, I know...
Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Wrisley [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:50 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Mmmmm.... Well, I won't generalize, but I disassembled the switches (if you
try this at home kids, be careful of all the little springy bits - I'm a
professional. Electrical Engineer, that is...) and found that the contacts
were badly scorched. I emery clothed them and that got me through the rest
of the season OK, but now I don't worry about it. It sure looked like the
switches were dealing with more current/inductive load than they were
designed to handle.

-Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: e s [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:40 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Not to defend lucas, but relays do one thing and one thing only: protect the
switch. AFAIK switches are not a failure point. Run a 14 ga wire from the
fusebox[they are unfused IIRC] and frm the switch to the window motors. It
is about 18 ga now. Good ground also


Oh try greasing the freaking things too.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Wrisley" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:46:57 -0500

[type36lotus]

I read somewhere (feel free to correct me if i am wrong) that SAE
wire has less capacity than AWG (higher resistance/foot?). I
compared my AWG for marine use with my SAE stuff and there is at
least a strand count difference. The marine AWG wire was also much
more flexible, as well as each strand tinned for corrosion
resistance. So now I only use marine wire. This of course
compromises the color codes, but I do label everything, well at
least MOST wires I add.

Mike Geiger
66 S3 Coupe'

--- In ***@***.***, "Peter Wrisley" <pwrisley@c...>
wrote: