AlanVoigts T9 5 speed

[Foxie]

Hi all,

Some time ago I advised the list of the delivery of Alan Voigts T9 Ford Sierra 5 speed conversion, which I was hoping to fit to a Plus 2 Spyder chassis. It was not certain whether it would fit, without or even with modifications. I got the impression Spyder were not interested now that they have their Zetec/MT75 on the market.

Well the good news is the gearbox is now successfully installed, and without the body lift I thought might be necessary. Some metal removal was required on the central chassis web, and also on the gearbox casting, but nothing critical. The gear lever originally supplied also required some mods, but is now perfect. The gearbox mounting bracket had to be practically refabricated. I have passed on all drawings and details to Alan.

The quality of the new bellhousing and tail housing castings looked very good. The sundries kit (new clutch plate, release bearing, set screws, clutch tubing, bleeder mounting etc.) supplied was very comprehensive.

The concentric clutch release is a lot lighter than the original, The gearchange is nice and precise like the 4 speed, not like the Lotus 5 speed which came out ! The synchromeshes were originally a little bit stiff, but are freeing out nicely ( I've got 47 miles up ! )

I have no connection to Alan Voigts other than he was extremely helpful before and during the installation, and I am now one very happy customer. I would venture to say that this will now be the mod of choice for 5 speed Elans.

Sean Murray

["e s"]

What does "some metal removal" mean?

Shift lever position?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Murray" <***@***.***>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:45:34 +0100

Subject: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed


--
_______________________________________________

[M100]

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:45:34 +0100, "Sean Murray" <***@***.***>
wrote:


Plus 2 Spyder chassis.

Sean do you have any info on if this fits the 2 seat (or for that
matter the +2) Lotus chassis? Its not clear from their ad in the last
Club Lotus mag (GBP 1500+vat quoted) although it implies a "direct
replacement"

The starter looks as though it's moved (compared to the 4 speed) to
the right hand side of the block, is this correct?

Martin

72/45
--

[Foxie]

Martin,

The new tail casting was designed to put the gear lever in the exact same position as the original, which it does.

It was designed to fit into the original sheet metal chassis, so it fits both the original "Just 2" and the Plus 2 . They had not checked out the Spyder spaceframe chassis.

The original chassis needs to have the central web or perforated bulkhead slightly reduced on the top upper rhs (looking forward) to clear the gearbox in the region of the speedo gear. Drawing for this is supplied with the gearbox.

The Spyder chassis has a bulkhead in the same position, but it's a u-channel construction. I ground off the interfering section with an angle grinder, and supplied a drawing to Alan Voigts. The boss on the tailhousing to gearbox bolt on the lower left needed to be ground off to clear a circular diagonal tube in the Spyder chassis. If the body was off the chassis, this circular tube could be crushed slightly to clear.

The starter position is exactly the same as original, ( right hand side, looking forward ) I don't quite understand what you think was changed. The bell housing and tail housing are both aluminium.

Hope this helps.

Sean Murray

----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Evans
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed


On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:45:34 +0100, "Sean Murray" <***@***.***>
wrote:


Plus 2 Spyder chassis.

Sean do you have any info on if this fits the 2 seat (or for that
matter the +2) Lotus chassis? Its not clear from their ad in the last
Club Lotus mag (GBP 1500+vat quoted) although it implies a "direct
replacement"

The starter looks as though it's moved (compared to the 4 speed) to
the right hand side of the block, is this correct?

Martin

72/45

[lotuselan2]

Sean or Martin

What is the cost of the T9 conversion? Can you supply an email address for
Alan Voigt?

I'm not sure how much longer this Cortina (Anglia?) box will hold up to a
BDR!

Ken
'69 +2 with BDR

[Briggs1]

Curious to know what is the MAX BHP anyone on the list is ACTUALLY putting
through a stock 4 speed.

Curious about real first hand knowledge, not the anecdotal - friend of a
cousin's neighbor's brother-in-law that said "he knew someone that...."


Thanks,

Briggs Pletcher


-----Original Message-----
From: lotus [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:49 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed

Sean or Martin

What is the cost of the T9 conversion? Can you supply an email address for
Alan Voigt?

I'm not sure how much longer this Cortina (Anglia?) box will hold up to a
BDR!

Ken
'69 +2 with BDR

[Foxie]

Ken,

Cost of the T9 conversion is GB?1,500 + VAT @17%
Alan Voigts is not on email.

His address is:

4 Toronto Street
Wallasey
Merseyside
CH44 6PR
England

Tel: 00 44 151 630 3575


Sean

BTW where are you located ?

----- Original Message -----
From: lotus
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed


Sean or Martin

What is the cost of the T9 conversion? Can you supply an email address for
Alan Voigt?

I'm not sure how much longer this Cortina (Anglia?) box will hold up to a
BDR!

Ken
'69 +2 with BDR

[lotuselan2]

Sean
Does his cost include the Sierra gearbox or do you have to supply it? I
believe finding a crashed Merkur in the US will not be too tough. Can
anyone confirm that the gearbox that he is using is the same as the Merkur
sold in US?
Ken
'69 +2 with BDR

[lotuselan2]

Briggs

My BDR has the torque of an honest 190 BHP motor. But that HP rating is at
9000 RPM which requires a billet crank and special rods e.g Carrillo.
However, with a stock, blueprinted crank I have the same torque up to 7000+
RPM. Motor is 1700 cc with 45 mm Dellortos and the Bean crank for 190 HP.
I have 2 1/4" diameter exhaust with one glass pack in the center of car and
a Supertrapp at the end, so I am not loosing much there.

As far as g-box durability, torque is probably more relevant than HP. I
probably have a few thousand miles on the combination over 7 years. The
gearbox is noisy but has not blown up yet. I have the semi-close ratio
4-speed and still running the 3.77 diff. I would dearly like an over-drive
tranny to cut the RPM and noise at 65+ mph. At lower speeds the noise is
beautiful at high speed it just plain annoying.

Ken
'69 +2 with BDR

[leojenbo]

Mon de s? kan finde p? mere.



"Sean Murray" <***@***.***>
12-08-2004 01:48
Please respond to
lotuselan


To
<***@***.***>
cc

Subject
Re: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed






Ken,

Cost of the T9 conversion is GB?1,500 + VAT @17%
Alan Voigts is not on email.

His address is:

4 Toronto Street
Wallasey
Merseyside
CH44 6PR
England

Tel: 00 44 151 630 3575


Sean

BTW where are you located ?

----- Original Message -----
From: lotus
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed


Sean or Martin

What is the cost of the T9 conversion? Can you supply an email address
for
Alan Voigt?

I'm not sure how much longer this Cortina (Anglia?) box will hold up to
a
BDR!

Ken
'69 +2 with BDR

[Foxie]

Ken,

The cost is for the complete kit, including gearbox ready to go.

Have a look at the flyer posted by Gary Anderson today.

Don't know about the Merkur, but it looks like you don't need it.

Sean

----- Original Message -----
From: lotus
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:35 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed


Sean
Does his cost include the Sierra gearbox or do you have to supply it? I
believe finding a crashed Merkur in the US will not be too tough. Can
anyone confirm that the gearbox that he is using is the same as the Merkur
sold in US?
Ken
'69 +2 with BDR

[garyeanderson]

Hi Ken
The Merkur has a long 8.1 inch first motion shaft (input) and I
believe that the "sierra" has a shorter 6.9 inch shaft. Not sure that
the input shaft can be cut down very easily but could be swapped for
the shorter one. The Merkur has the more sporting ratio's with a
2.8:1 first gear vs the 3.65:1 used in Alans kit.

Gary Anderson

--- In ***@***.***, "Sean Murray" <snmurray@i...> wrote:

[rgh0]

--- In ***@***.***, "Briggs Pletcher"
<BriggsPletcher@V...> wrote:



I have around 165 and at 8000 rpm and 145 ft-lbs at 5500rpm out of a
1600 twin cam in my Elan. My original 4 speed lasted for 30 years
the last 15 years being mainly competition and the last 4 of these 15
years with the 165 hp engine engine before third gear teeth failed
due to fatigue ( I had a 145 hp engine before that) . I do around 600
to 1000 miles a year of full race competition. I now use a quaiffe
internal gear set in the standard casing. The local race regs require
the standard iron casing but internal components are free.

Torque is probably the more relevant measure of gearbox load so
people with 2 litre zetec somethings or big bore tall block 1760 cc
engines may be stressing their boxes more if using the full torque of
some of these engines. Also critical is how you can put the torque on
the road. I run a limited slip diff and sticky enough tyres that
enable the full egnie toque to be utilised in all gears without
significant wheel spin.

Also driving and gear change technique has a signficant effect on
gearbox life regardless of hp / torque being fed through it. Visited
Hollinger gearboxes recently who make competition boxes for many of
the racing classes here in Australia ( V8 supe cars) and also in
Europe ( eg Porsche six speed sequential change)and some of the
American racing as well. They say life difference between a good and
bad driver in the same car / engine / gear box is about 10 to 1. Eg 2
gear boxes a weekend versus 2 gear boxes a season ! At about 20k$ a
box that a big difference in cost.

Hard to judge the difference between full race type life and road
life. But for me, I would estimate a 1000 miles on the track is
equivalent to 10,000 miles on the road at least in terms of gear box
and engine wear and life. I would do a 5000rpm drop the clutch start
every 30 miles at the start of each race plus be on full throttle and
between 6000 and 8000 rpm for 80% of the total miles done.

The biggest problem with high hp and the 4 speed gear box whether
standard or quaiffe internals is the radial loads on the layshaft
causing it to loosen and chew out its locating slot in the tail
housing and then spin destroying the locating holes for the lay shaft
in the case.

This problem occured with my quaiffe box about 18 months ago and I
have been running with my spare standard box while I rebuild the
quaiffe one with a new second hand case. Hopefully I will find time
to finish it in the next couple of months nad get it back into the
car with the new 175hp engine I am building

Rohan

[Elan45]

But the gearbox itself would be the expensive part to ship across water.



The cost is for the complete kit, including gearbox ready to go.

Have a look at the flyer posted by Gary Anderson today.

Don't know about the Merkur, but it looks like you don't need it.

Sean

----- Original Message -----
From: lotus
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:35 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] AlanVoigts T9 5 speed


Sean
Does his cost include the Sierra gearbox or do you have to supply it? I
believe finding a crashed Merkur in the US will not be too tough. Can
anyone confirm that the gearbox that he is using is the same as the Merkur
sold in US?
Ken
'69 +2 with BDR























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