body fitting-problem

[rdssdi]

Spent a few more hours to no avail. I am reposting this in the hope someone
has experienced a similar problem and can help.

I am trying to fit a new mid-front section to my +2.

The mid front section extends from approx. mid front wheel arch to the front
of car.

I have already cut off the old section. I am having difficulty aligning the
new section.

Further complicating matters, I have the body on a new Spyder chassis. I have
yet to drill and tap the chassis. I am hoping that I will be able to attach
the new section, then drill/tap and attach the body to the chassis.

It seems that the original body is "twisted". I can move the body slightly
around the center line or "backbone axis".

Should I attach the body to the chassis first? How do I measure?

Has anyone replaced a front section and chassis?

Suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.

Bob
1969 Elan +2

[lotusracer53]

Hi Bob
I fit a new 26R chassis to my 69 Elan. Plus a right rear Body 1/4. Right rocker to center of body- back to rear body panel. I can't count the hours lining up everything. I used my old chassis as a jig. It was rusted. I welded legs on it. I cut the strut towers of for ease of taking body off + on.Once I got the body back together I fit it to the 26R chassis.
I hung all the susp. and centered the axles in the wheel openings on the body. I was short about 3/4 inch from center. I had to cut out the front faceof the inner body were the strut towers fit up into. This allowed the body to slide back on the frame. Now everything lined up perfect. I used little blocks of wood + screws to hold body together when lining up body panels.Get back and look at your body alignment. If you have your old chassis and it has no bends in it use it for the jig .I made many cuts in the body and new body part. before the final cuts and bonding back together. I also tried to stager, step, zig-zag all the cuts. Makes them stronger Don't just cut it straight off and glass it back together. If your Plus2 is like my Elan. You need to support the nose when off the chassis My body mounts in front of the steering rack mounts. Where are you located. I am in SE Pa.
Hope this gives you some help, Dave Hoffman..


-------------- Original message --------------

[nebogipfel]

Hi Bob

I cannot speak from experience of having done the job but I think my
approach would be to mark drill and mount the main body onto the new
chassis so that it is secure and in the position it has to sit.

I would then trial fit the new mid front to get the best fit on the
external wing panels and the bonnet aperture (the bits which are
seen) Use plates screwed across the join as a temporary fixing.

Remember fiberglass is fairly forgiving and even if you end up with
a bit of a gap you can soon bridge it with new laminate.

At that point you could then drill and mark your mountings and
attach the front end using shims on the mounting points if needed so
that there is no excessive strain on anything

The final stage would be to glass everything up solid inside and out.

As I say this is just the way I think I would tackle it

Good luck
John

[BillGavin]

I'd be VERY careful bolting the body onto the new chassis and then
expecting the new nose to fit properly. There is a LOT of variation
between frames and bodies, and it is quite usual to require shims
of varying thickness between the body and the chassis. I was
looking at an S4 last week that had a "nose job" that resulted in
an abrupt break in the smooth line of the fender above the wheel
well. The flange inside the bonnet opening is buckled, and the
bonnet does not fit the opening. The car is certainly driveable, and
with some care fitting the bonnet, looks quite presentable, but it
doesn't take much effort to see the problems.

The "repairs" were done far in the past, so no one knows for sure,
but problems like this would be likely results from bolting down the
body and making the nose fit.

It would be far preferable to use the old chassis as a fixture, if
possible. If the new chassis must be used, I would carefully align
the body, and drill only the vertical holes at the rear of the tunnel,
and those near the midpoint of the cockpit. These can be adjusted
fairly easily if required. I would then trial fit the nose, paying a lot of
attention to the smooth flow of line along the fender and past the
bonnet aperture. If there are any problems fitting, shim the main body
and/or the nose as required to get the body lines correct.

Only when the body is complete and all shims determined and installed
would I consider drilling the rest of the holes and bolting the body down
solid.

I acquired my S2 with "some assembly required", with a new Spyder
chassis and no installation instructions. I got the body pretty close,
but only by very careful measuring and shimming so the body sits
evenly on the chassis.

- Bill

At 03:00 PM 7/22/2004, you wrote:

[rdssdi]

Thanks to all who offered suggestions.

It is certainly frustrating when you encounter a problem that was not
anticipated nor covered in the Wilkens book. I did get some great advice from Randall
Fehr. (Randall Fehr Restorations) Randall shared his experiences and I came
up with this solution.

I put the car in the driveway, in the sun.

I placed the new section on and supported it with a small bottle jack under
the nose.

It appeared to me that the replacement section was twisted as it would
"teeter" on the front attachment point. When one fender was in alignment the other
would be up in the air and vice versa. Then I used straps to "pull" the
fenders in the direction they had to go.

I covered the car with a clear plastic tarp to hold in the heat.

I occasionally used my hands to push the part into alignment.

After a day in the hot sun the part now fits. Its not exact but the only
alignment necessary is lateral not vertical. Only 1/4" of adjustment is now needed.

If the same method does not move the fender the final 1/4" I will make two
slits in the part and spread the halves into alignment.

Bob
1969 Elan +2

[davidallen]

I am probably telling you all somthing you already know, but fibreglass (not
fiberglass!) panels to distort badly if removed for the mould too soon.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Sent: 23 July 2004 00:53
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: body fitting-solution


Thanks to all who offered suggestions.

It is certainly frustrating when you encounter a problem that was not
anticipated nor covered in the Wilkens book. I did get some great advice
from Randall
Fehr. (Randall Fehr Restorations) Randall shared his experiences and I came
up with this solution.

I put the car in the driveway, in the sun.

I placed the new section on and supported it with a small bottle jack under
the nose.

It appeared to me that the replacement section was twisted as it would
"teeter" on the front attachment point. When one fender was in alignment the
other
would be up in the air and vice versa. Then I used straps to "pull" the
fenders in the direction they had to go.

I covered the car with a clear plastic tarp to hold in the heat.

I occasionally used my hands to push the part into alignment.

After a day in the hot sun the part now fits. Its not exact but the only
alignment necessary is lateral not vertical. Only 1/4" of adjustment is now
needed.

If the same method does not move the fender the final 1/4" I will make two
slits in the part and spread the halves into alignment.

Bob
1969 Elan +2

[Harald S. Feeß]

Hi Bob,

in "Club Lotus News" , issue 3/2004 is an article that could be interesting
for you: "Restore your Elan the Mick Miller way No. 2 Notes on refurbishing
the body" by Susan Miller.
Maybe someone can scan and e-mail it to you.

Harry
Munich, Germany
71 Elan Sprint fhc rhd

[Elan45]

Bob,

One tool I especially like when doing fiberglass repairs are Clecos. These are small spring loaded temporary, re-useable fasteners. They are inserted into a hole w/ special pliers and when released, the internal spring holds them and panels in place.

I punch or drill the proper sized hole in small scraps of aluminum sheet (Clecos commonly come in 3/32, 1/8, 5/32 and 3/16 diameter sizes and I use the two smaler sizes for this job). A Cleco can be used w/ two pieces of aluminum w/ the Cleco going through the broken seam or crack of the fiberglass so that it acts as a tiny clamp w/ an alloy piece on top and one on the bottom of the crack. This holds the panels to be joined flat in alignment. I space them 3 to 6" apart, then make a small fiberglass repair between them, remove the clecos and continue the repairs where they were.

You can also punch two holes in each aluminum square and use two clecos at each location, drilling holes into the fiberglass for the cleco to go through alum/ fiberglass/alum, one one each side of the crack and these can be use to anchor panels where you've had to pull or push them into place. Worksgreat!

Clecos are available many places, such as racing supply houses, aircraft supplies, Eastwood and I've even bought them on ebay. As racing guru Carrol Smith used to say, "Clecos are like peanuts, you can never have too many."+

So, with that thought in mind, I store mine in peanut or cashew cans w/ thesnap on plastic lids. I have no connection to any of the companies involved, just can't think of how I ever got by w/o Clecos before.

Roger



in "Club Lotus News" , issue 3/2004 is an article that could be interesting
for you: "Restore your Elan the Mick Miller way No. 2 Notes on refurbishing
the body" by Susan Miller.
Maybe someone can scan and e-mail it to you.

Harry
Munich, Germany
71 Elan Sprint fhc rhd











































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[garyeanderson]

Bob
Small blocks of 1/4" plywood and sheetrock screews work nearly as
well. Pre drill the fiberglass(fibreglass) to prevent gelcoat cracks.
Grind, glass and fill the holes when done. As far as lining up the
new mid nose, if the original chassis is not bent then I would bolt
it back to it in several places so it won't move durring the bonding
of the new nose. The criticle thing to make sure happens is that the
opening for the bonnet is correct, this is what is going to dwaw your
eyes. use paint stirring sticks (about an 1/8 of an inch) to set the
gap between bonnet and the bonnet opening. Once the bonnet looks good
to the eye in the opening take two 1"x1" batten's (straight grain
wood) about 3 feet long and use sheetrock screws to secure them one
on each side of the bonnet. This will lock the bonnet opening and
also level the gelcoat surface. Drill 4 holes in each batten, two at
each end and two towards the middle where the bond (one on each side
of the bond) will be. when satisfied with the way everything looks,
then you can glass it together, do not attempt to glass the whole
distance, just stich it into place so you can remove all the
temperary fasteners, then go back and put two layers of 1 1/2 oz mat
on the top side. then flip the car over and do the underside with 2
more layers of 1 1/2 oz. (easy to say, harder to do).

Gary

--- In ***@***.***, "Roger Sieling" <rogsie@t...> wrote:

fasteners. They are inserted into a hole w/ special pliers and when
released, the internal spring holds them and panels in place.

sizes and I use the two smaler sizes for this job). A Cleco can be
used w/ two pieces of aluminum w/ the Cleco going through the broken
seam or crack of the fiberglass so that it acts as a tiny clamp w/ an
alloy piece on top and one on the bottom of the crack. This holds the
panels to be joined flat in alignment. I space them 3 to 6" apart,
then make a small fiberglass repair between them, remove the clecos
and continue the repairs where they were.

cleco to go through alum/ fiberglass/alum, one one each side of the
crack and these can be use to anchor panels where you've had to pull
or push them into place. Works great!

racing guru Carrol Smith used to say, "Clecos are like peanuts, you
can never have too many."+

companies involved, just can't think of how I ever got by w/o Clecos
before.

[nebogipfel]

--- In ***@***.***, Bill Gavin <wfg@c...> wrote:

"I'd be VERY careful bolting the body onto the new chassis and then
expecting the new nose to fit properly"

Fair point Bill, I would still be inclined to be certain that the
original body was aligned properly to the chassis rather than worry
about the front section which can always be "cut and shut" a bit if
needed to make it fit.

My own S4 has previously had a new front fitted and I would not want
to rely on it for alignment. The quality of the section was poor and
I have had to spend quite a bit of time improving it. I am sure the
sections available today must vary in quality but I would rely on
the bit built by Lotus

John