Donut Replacement

[brassringfarm]

Elan enthusiasts -
When I replaced my Diff seals 2 weeks ago, I obviously had to remove and replace the donuts. I was lucky and used regular old Stainless worm (Jubilee?) clamps from Home Depot to compress the donuts - which is critical - as they expand about 1/8 inch radially when uncompressed. The order of installing donuts discussed a few days ago is also correct, according to my trials and tribulations. I also jacked up the strut to get them as level as possible but ended up just lifting the car and they were never aligned just right. In retrospect - I should have put 200 lb of horse feed or lead or a neighbor in the boot to get everything lined up perfectly. I used a #3 phillips screwdriver to slign the holes - which occured in the topmost position. As others said - get all three bolts in first - then put on the nuts. Good luck - it's a devil of a job. Next time - I'm moving to CV joints.
Paul
65 S2

[steveww]

A good tip is to use three smaller jubilee straps rather than one big
one. This allows you to adjust each screw on the Jubilees to help align
up the holes.

***@***.***e:

--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."

[davidallen]

This is why I am removing the donuts (Replacing the Diff seals/bearing).

Any other tips you discovered?

I have heard a lot about the output seals failing, but not the input. Is
this less prone to failure?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:16 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Donut Replacement


Elan enthusiasts -
When I replaced my Diff seals 2 weeks ago, I obviously had to remove and
replace the donuts. I was lucky and used regular old Stainless worm
(Jubilee?) clamps from Home Depot to compress the donuts - which is critical
- as they expand about 1/8 inch radially when uncompressed. The order of
installing donuts discussed a few days ago is also correct, according to my
trials and tribulations. I also jacked up the strut to get them as level as
possible but ended up just lifting the car and they were never aligned just
right. In retrospect - I should have put 200 lb of horse feed or lead or a
neighbor in the boot to get everything lined up perfectly. I used a #3
phillips screwdriver to slign the holes - which occured in the topmost
position. As others said - get all three bolts in first - then put on the
nuts. Good luck - it's a devil of a job. Next time - I'm moving to CV
joints.
Paul
65 S2
















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[poiuyt]

It is my understanding that the donuts not only allow the axle to bend as the wheel moves up and down, but to change slightly in
length. (This has been accomodated in other cars with a splined halfshaft.) If you go to a CV joint, the shafl length is then fixed and
some strain will be present on the suspension components.

Am I wrong or is there something I am missing?

Steve B.


--- In ***@***.***, ***@***.***e:

when uncompressed. The order of installing donuts discussed a few days ago is also correct, according to my trials and tribulations. I
also jacked up the strut to get them as level as possible but ended up just lifting the car and they were never aligned just right. In
retrospect - I should have put 200 lb of horse feed or lead or a neighbor in the boot to get everything lined up perfectly. I used a #3
phillips screwdriver to slign the holes - which occured in the topmost position. As others said - get all three bolts in first - then put on
the nuts. Good luck - it's a devil of a job. Next time - I'm moving to CV joints.

[tvacc]

The CVs that I have used..(the bean unit) have a sliding spline incorporated
into the design.



Tony V



_____

From: Steve B [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:17 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement



It is my understanding that the donuts not only allow the axle to bend as
the wheel moves up and down, but to change slightly in
length. (This has been accomodated in other cars with a splined halfshaft.)
If you go to a CV joint, the shafl length is then fixed and
some strain will be present on the suspension components.

Am I wrong or is there something I am missing?

Steve B.


--- In ***@***.***, ***@***.***e:

Stainless worm (Jubilee?) clamps from Home Depot to compress the donuts -
which is critical - as they expand about 1/8 inch radially
when uncompressed. The order of installing donuts discussed a few days ago
is also correct, according to my trials and tribulations. I
also jacked up the strut to get them as level as possible but ended up just
lifting the car and they were never aligned just right. In
retrospect - I should have put 200 lb of horse feed or lead or a neighbor in
the boot to get everything lined up perfectly. I used a #3
phillips screwdriver to slign the holes - which occured in the topmost
position. As others said - get all three bolts in first - then put on
the nuts. Good luck - it's a devil of a job. Next time - I'm moving to CV
joints.







CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author.

[steveww]

CV joints allow for in/out movement as well as angular movement.

Steve B wrote:

[Arno Church]

Further to all this
There are two types of the Lobro style CV joint
1> the "plunging" type , as fitted to both ends of the drive shaft of rear wheel drive IRS cars such as the Beetle, Microbus/Kombi, Ford Sierra etc
as well as on the inner end of a FWD cars
2> the "knuckle" type which is fitted to the outer end of FWD cars and thisallows steering movement.
as we all know , steering movement is far more than plain droop movement that the plunging type can accommodate
On my (now sold ) Elan S3 I used the small Golf MK 1 plunging type - no problem
When establishing the length of the shaft , I made sure that the required measurement was taken with the suspension at ride height and with the centreof the inner "race" of the CV joints located centrally within the outer "race"
This would then allow for equal droop and rise movement
Finally, the CV joint is a very clever "animal" , far superior to the universal joint
Just make sure you buy NEW and not second hand or reconditioned
In S/H joints that have not been abused , it is difficult to spot wear.
Normally , it is only the grooves that will show wear and not the balls
In recon units , the grooves are actually machined slightly oversize to getrid of wear and the oversized balls (no, not the ones you need to become asuccessful racing driver) are used.
Arno

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Waterworth
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement


CV joints allow for in/out movement as well as angular movement.

Steve B wrote:

[Arno Church]

Yes there is, the CV joint is so cleverly designed that they also can move sideways to accommodate the "lengthening effect" of suspension movement
The joints I used could move about 15 mm sideways from it's central position
Arno

Am I wrong or is there something I am missing?

Steve B.

[davidallen]

Has anyone had experience of the spyder drive shafts, which have a fixed
(non sliding) shaft, a UJ and retains one donut.

I guess the theory is that the variation in the length of the drive shaft
will be taken up by the single donut, but would not this result in the donut
flexing more than the original setup, and consequently more likely to fail?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Arno Church [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:00 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement


Further to all this
There are two types of the Lobro style CV joint
1> the "plunging" type , as fitted to both ends of the drive shaft of rear
wheel drive IRS cars such as the Beetle, Microbus/Kombi, Ford Sierra etc
as well as on the inner end of a FWD cars
2> the "knuckle" type which is fitted to the outer end of FWD cars and this
allows steering movement.
as we all know , steering movement is far more than plain droop movement
that the plunging type can accommodate
On my (now sold ) Elan S3 I used the small Golf MK 1 plunging type - no
problem
When establishing the length of the shaft , I made sure that the required
measurement was taken with the suspension at ride height and with the centre
of the inner "race" of the CV joints located centrally within the outer
"race"
This would then allow for equal droop and rise movement
Finally, the CV joint is a very clever "animal" , far superior to the
universal joint
Just make sure you buy NEW and not second hand or reconditioned
In S/H joints that have not been abused , it is difficult to spot wear.
Normally , it is only the grooves that will show wear and not the balls
In recon units , the grooves are actually machined slightly oversize to get
rid of wear and the oversized balls (no, not the ones you need to become a
successful racing driver) are used.
Arno

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Waterworth
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement


CV joints allow for in/out movement as well as angular movement.

Steve B wrote:

[tvacc]

I had those on my spyder built car many years ago. I did not put them
on..but they worked fine.more like the feeling of the original car than the
"pure" sliding splines with CV...but I had those as well on my other Elan
and they were great.from Bean. I noticed last night that RD has them as
well for about $1250,,,,



I paid about $900 15 yeara ago,...so that is not so bad..



Tony V



_____

From: ALLEN, David [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 4:34 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement



Has anyone had experience of the spyder drive shafts, which have a fixed
(non sliding) shaft, a UJ and retains one donut.

I guess the theory is that the variation in the length of the drive shaft
will be taken up by the single donut, but would not this result in the donut
flexing more than the original setup, and consequently more likely to fail?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Arno Church [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:00 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement


Further to all this
There are two types of the Lobro style CV joint
1> the "plunging" type , as fitted to both ends of the drive shaft of rear
wheel drive IRS cars such as the Beetle, Microbus/Kombi, Ford Sierra etc
as well as on the inner end of a FWD cars
2> the "knuckle" type which is fitted to the outer end of FWD cars and this
allows steering movement.
as we all know , steering movement is far more than plain droop movement
that the plunging type can accommodate
On my (now sold ) Elan S3 I used the small Golf MK 1 plunging type - no
problem
When establishing the length of the shaft , I made sure that the required
measurement was taken with the suspension at ride height and with the centre
of the inner "race" of the CV joints located centrally within the outer
"race"
This would then allow for equal droop and rise movement
Finally, the CV joint is a very clever "animal" , far superior to the
universal joint
Just make sure you buy NEW and not second hand or reconditioned
In S/H joints that have not been abused , it is difficult to spot wear.
Normally , it is only the grooves that will show wear and not the balls
In recon units , the grooves are actually machined slightly oversize to get
rid of wear and the oversized balls (no, not the ones you need to become a
successful racing driver) are used.
Arno

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Waterworth
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement


CV joints allow for in/out movement as well as angular movement.

Steve B wrote:

[Foxie]

David,

I fitted Spyder CV/donut shafts twelve years ago. The Spyder conversion has a CV joint as distinct from a UJ, mounted on splines which slide in the CV.

Before this I used carry spares donuts I had to change them so often.

Since I fitted the Spyder shafts I haven't had to touch them since, they seem pretty bomb-proof.

Sean Murray

----- Original Message -----
From: ALLEN, David
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Donut Replacement


Has anyone had experience of the spyder drive shafts, which have a fixed
(non sliding) shaft, a UJ and retains one donut.

I guess the theory is that the variation in the length of the drive shaft
will be taken up by the single donut, but would not this result in the donut
flexing more than the original setup, and consequently more likely to fail?

David

[rgh0]

There are a set of the Elan Trikbits CV joint conversion on Ebay
currently for auction for anyone interested.

Item No:2478506815

Rohan