Relays for windows

[saarhus]

My early Coupe', s/n 36/5522 had the window motors wired with what looked like an 18 gauge extension cord, complete with vinyl cover. The insulation crumbled and the only thing that prevented disaster was the sheath itself. I have often wondered what other folks encountered, and whether mine was just a fluke.

Stan

1) make sure you run a high current heavy wire from your fuse box to
the relay as a high current positive feed, the relay switching comes
from your window switch, and then run a heavier wire through to the
motor. A good earth is essential

It's the heavier wire allowing a higher current flow that does the
trick. Running relays with only factory thickness wiring will make no
difference.

Ray

[thewris]

It's quite possible that the ampacity could be different. There are a
number of different SAE specs, and of course the British standard wire is
different to both SAE and AWG. I try to stick to the BS-AU7a 1983 spec when
I wire British cars. The safest thing is to know what spec your wire was
made to, and check the ampacity rating. Don't buy hardware store or auto
parts emporium hookup wire.
Marine wire is great for weather resistance, and aviation wire is nearly as
good, with incredible abrasion resistance. But I love the ease of
identifying a circuit that comes with the BS-AU7a color code. Once you've
spent some time with it, you can identify almost any circuit at a glance.
A trick I use for labeling non-color-coded wires is to either write a label
on a small piece of paper, print it on the computer, or use a label-maker,
then slip a length of clear shrink-tube over the end of the wire with the
label inside. Shrink it on and it's sealed and permanent.

Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Geiger [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:59 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows




I read somewhere (feel free to correct me if i am wrong) that SAE
wire has less capacity than AWG (higher resistance/foot?). I
compared my AWG for marine use with my SAE stuff and there is at
least a strand count difference. The marine AWG wire was also much
more flexible, as well as each strand tinned for corrosion
resistance. So now I only use marine wire. This of course
compromises the color codes, but I do label everything, well at
least MOST wires I add.

Mike Geiger
66 S3 Coupe'

--- In ***@***.***, "Peter Wrisley" <pwrisley@c...>
wrote:

[Bill]

Pete

I am maintaining my stick on the ice BUT my 1600 or S2 have no relays on
their window mechanisms- perfect lightness I guess.

However - when it rains I have always had to have a towel handy (for 40
years) to mop up the wet that comes thru the drivers side screen because it
always drifts down while travelling. I supose that I can blame it on those
F'n 1950's London Austin taxis that Colin stole them from. Any cure for
this?? Stronger springs??

No wiring problems so far tho'.

And I am a retired electrical guy!

Uncle Bill - 26/0538


Original Message -----
From: "elansprint71" <***@***.***>

Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows

What is this word "heavy"? Not Chapmanspeak, I believe. Anyone out there
successfully converted motorised windows to manual winders?

Pete.
Add more lightness, flood the fen, keep your stick on the ice. Gidday mates.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Wrisley
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Absolutely right - notice on the schematic I posted to Yahoo that I call
out
28-strand wire for the power feed to the relays and from the relays to the
motors.
The heavier gauge wire, combined with relays which are designed to carry
the
current drawn by the motors (rather than the pitifully inadequate
switches)
is the key to reliable, and likely somewhat faster, window operation.

Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Edwards [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:39 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Hi Bob,

I have done this with he success, but:
1) make sure you run a high current heavy wire from your fuse box to the
relay as a high current positive feed, the relay switching comes from your
window switch, and then run a heavier wire through to the motor. A good
earth is essential

It's the heavier wire allowing a higher current flow that does the trick.
Running relays with only factory thickness wiring will make no difference.

Ray

[lotuselan2]

Uncle Bill
The springs are wound a certain number of turns to balance the weight of the
window. In theory they should go up and down at the same speed. It sounds
like you have one or two turns to few. If you undertake rewinding them,
have a lot of patience and about six hands ready to hold things; or know the
trick to winding them.
Ken

'69 +2 with BDR

[BillGavin]

The window arrangement for the S1 and S2 is different from the later cars and
doesn't use the clock-style spring. The early cars use coil springs in tension
to counterbalance the weight of the windows: not only are these not
adjustable,
but the force is not constant through the range of motion, and the least force
is available at the full up and full down positions.

Some improvement could be made by restoring any worn spots at the ends
of the springs, and a small increase in tension could be made by sliding some
Tygon tubing over the end hooks of the springs where they hook over the
anchors.

Late S2s have a latch to hold the glass up: my car has the latch mechanism,
but has the knobs removed. I've been reluctant to install them, as passengers
have enough trouble realizing they have to pull the glass up and down by hand
without adding that they need to check the manual latch before they try to
pull
the glass down.

- Bill Gavin

At 08:59 AM 1/22/2005, you wrote:

["e s"]

35 years

165000 miles

switch failures: 1 the slide kill switch in the glove box

methinks they is ok
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Wrisley" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:50:29 -0500

[M100]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:50:23 -0000, "elansprint71"
<***@***.***> wrote:


The Elise went from manual to power windows to apparently "save
weight" - although this might have been a sop to those wimps in the US



Martin
72/45
--

[john.p.clegg]

Martin

You've done it now,don't you realise "those wimps in the U.S." saved our bacon in 1945

John

Martin Evans <***@***.***> wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:50:23 -0000, "elansprint71"
wrote:


The Elise went from manual to power windows to apparently "save
weight" - although this might have been a sop to those wimps in the US



Martin
72/45
--

[thewris]

OK, I give! Obviously 35 years and 165,000 miles in an Elan beats 30 years
experience as an Electrical Engineer!

-Pete Wrisley

-----Original Message-----
From: e s [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 11:34 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows



35 years

165000 miles

switch failures: 1 the slide kill switch in the glove box

methinks they is ok
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Wrisley" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:50:29 -0500

[BillGavin]

I could believe that. It requires a good bit of structure to
locate the winder in a convenient location, and to withstand
enthusiastic cranking. An electric motor can be mounted in
a corner where there is already some structure, and motors
are pretty light these days.

Finding a "convenient" place for a winder in a Lotus
cockpit might be a challenge as well

- Bill Gavin

At 12:34 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:

[elansprint71]

Or, Uncle Bill, you could add even more lightness by drilling holes in the glass, then the windows would stay up but you would still get wet, thereby keeping the feel of the car original!

Pete.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lotus
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows


Uncle Bill
The springs are wound a certain number of turns to balance the weight of the
window. In theory they should go up and down at the same speed. It sounds
like you have one or two turns to few. If you undertake rewinding them,
have a lot of patience and about six hands ready to hold things; or know the
trick to winding them.
Ken

'69 +2 with BDR

















------------------------------------------------------------------------------






***@***.***

[poiuyt]

John,

Thank you for remembering! Many folks on your side of the pond seem
to have forgotten that lately - especially those on the eastern side
of the Channel.

Steve B.

--- In ***@***.***, JOHN CLEGG <john.p.clegg@b...>
wrote:

[Bill]

Bill - Ken - Pete

Well I don't know boys, if I try to lighten the car by drilling holes in the
glass it will only mean a second towell to keep things dryer m'thinks.

Thanks for the tips, I may strip the door tomorrow and see if any of the
spring tensioning tips work. If not my 6th hand (my neighbour) and I can
work on a 5th of rum to chase away the old west coast rain blues.

The 1600 does not have the window latch - holder upper gizmo - but the S2
indeed does. I could sacrifice the S1's origionality by fitting the latch
from the S2, but, what the hell, I would miss the thrill of, after a rainy
trip, of explaining why I had a wet lap.

We went thru 2 dumps of snow for a total of 60cm in a week. Now we are
getting about 150mm of rain. Pissed offf!!!! you bet, back to Mexico soon.

Keep that stick down.

Uncle Bill

By the way, after more than a year of Curchill smooshing Rosavelt the US
"assisted" the British war effort against Hitler with lend lease materials
in 1941. The British Isles took the brunt of it all. Canada declared war on
Japan after the Pearl Harbour attack before the US did.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Gavin" <***@***.***>

Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows



The window arrangement for the S1 and S2 is different from the later cars
and
doesn't use the clock-style spring. The early cars use coil springs in
tension
to counterbalance the weight of the windows: not only are these not
adjustable,
but the force is not constant through the range of motion, and the least
force
is available at the full up and full down positions.

Some improvement could be made by restoring any worn spots at the ends
of the springs, and a small increase in tension could be made by sliding
some
Tygon tubing over the end hooks of the springs where they hook over the
anchors.

Late S2s have a latch to hold the glass up: my car has the latch mechanism,
but has the knobs removed. I've been reluctant to install them, as
passengers
have enough trouble realizing they have to pull the glass up and down by
hand
without adding that they need to check the manual latch before they try to
pull
the glass down.

- Bill Gavin

At 08:59 AM 1/22/2005, you wrote:

[Bill]

Bill

What is "Tygon" tubing??

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Gavin" <***@***.***>

Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Relays for windows



The window arrangement for the S1 and S2 is different from the later cars
and
doesn't use the clock-style spring. The early cars use coil springs in
tension
to counterbalance the weight of the windows: not only are these not
adjustable,
but the force is not constant through the range of motion, and the least
force
is available at the full up and full down positions.

Some improvement could be made by restoring any worn spots at the ends
of the springs, and a small increase in tension could be made by sliding
some
Tygon tubing over the end hooks of the springs where they hook over the
anchors.

Late S2s have a latch to hold the glass up: my car has the latch mechanism,
but has the knobs removed. I've been reluctant to install them, as
passengers
have enough trouble realizing they have to pull the glass up and down by
hand
without adding that they need to check the manual latch before they try to
pull
the glass down.

- Bill Gavin

At 08:59 AM 1/22/2005, you wrote:

[BillGavin]

Hi Bill

Tygon tubing is the clear plastic tubing used in windscreen
washers, aquariums and breathing O2 systems. It's thick
and firm enough to take some abuse, yet flexible enough to
bend along contours. It comes in several convenient sizes,
and isn't expensive. Some hardware stores carry it, industrial
suppliers usually have it, aquarium supply stores are the
safest bet.

For our purpose, anything flexible enough to fit around the
end of the spring, and tough enough not to split or extrude
would be suitable.

Binding a couple of coils with safety wire would help peak
tension, not sure it would add much in 'up' position - depends
on how much preload there is.

Good luck

- Bill
(Getting ready to clear 18" of fresh snow.....)


At 12:24 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote: