Lotus Elan

Magnesium Parts

PostPost by: TWebb » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:23 pm

I will be putting together a new drive train. Are there any issues to be concerned about relative to using magnesium and/or aluminum? (Bell housing, gear case, tail shaft, diff nose)

Also, Kelvedon offers a "quick release" bell housing. Anyone have any experience with this newer product.

This will be used in the racecar.

Thanks
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PostPost by: 661 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:35 pm

I have an Alan Henderson quick release bell housing. I find it a pain and would be happier pulling the engine.
Ian Ford has it too and told me he likes it alot.....
Magnesium is meant to have a shelf life, Ali less so. Mg is quite brittle.
I've got Mg where I can. You can't have a Mg bell housing with the quick relase system ( unless things have changed) and the nose is best in Ali ( I am told , as it seats the oil seal better).
So it costs a bit more, is a bit lighter. There are better ways to save weight ( the cage, strengthening the shell in the places you need only, seat, fire extinguiser, tank.)
Happy to chat
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PostPost by: Vali » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:08 am

661 wrote:Magnesium is meant to have a shelf life, Ali less so. Mg is quite brittle.


What does that mean? Magnesium will last about let´s say 5 years then it has to be replaced because it´s get to brittle or what does you mean with shelf life?
Because the rear hub carrier and wheels often are in magnesium?
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PostPost by: BrianA » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:46 am

TWebb wrote:This will be used in the racecar.

Thanks


A word of warning - if you want to run to FIA spec and obtain HTP papers for the car, you must retain the cast iron gear casing. Bell housing and tail shaft housing can be changed but the central gear casing cannot.

I am in the process of removing a magnesium cased gearbox from a recently acquired GTS spec car for this very reason. It also has a concentric clutch release set up that has to go, as this is illegal in the eyes of the FIA which requires most things to remain as per the original homologation (# 127 if I remember correctly).
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PostPost by: TWebb » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:14 pm

Brian,

At this point I am not concerned about FIA cert. My car has no provenance. In the States the groups I run with allow for alloy gearbox and diff casings.
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PostPost by: 661 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:42 am

Vali wrote:
661 wrote:Magnesium is meant to have a shelf life, Ali less so. Mg is quite brittle.


What does that mean? Magnesium will last about let´s say 5 years then it has to be replaced because it´s get to brittle or what does you mean with shelf life?
Because the rear hub carrier and wheels often are in magnesium?

Forgive me, I am no metallurgist. When looking at Mg components and speaking to race teams I was led to believe that magnesium castings would not remain relaible for as long as aluminium ones. If I recall this was when I was discussing gearbox casings but I reencountered the same thing when looking at secondhand race wheels.
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PostPost by: bitsobrits » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:40 pm

I believe the concern with magnesium is (internal) corrosion over time.
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PostPost by: Lyn7 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:40 pm

Hi Guy's. I can understand the concern about old mag wheels as they are pretty critical. Other mag castings may be less so. I have had no problem running old mag gearbox castings for 30 years! I have bellhousing, main case and tail housing marked 1963, 1964 and 1965 respectively. I inspect them periodically when the opportunity arises and have no concerns about their use.
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PostPost by: Vali » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:19 am

Does anyone of you regulary coat the magnesium parts like rear upgrights, diff rear carrier etc. with WD40 or another penetrating oil like Owatrol?
Nobody of you have those bits painted, right?
I got told to WD40 the mag parts regulary and every time as soon as possible when it got wet.

What are your experiences?
Leave it as it is, penetrate them regulary or paint it like you would do with magnesium wheels.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:06 pm

I tried some clear coat, for alloy.
Sort of fine, solvent based WD40 maybe eats rubber?
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PostPost by: Craven » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:23 pm

WD 40. Water Displacement formula number 40 It is not sold as a penetrating oil.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:36 pm

“WHAT'S STODDARD SOLVENT?

Myth: WD-40® contains Stoddard Solvent.

Fact: Over the past few decades, the name Stoddard Solvent was synonymous with all mineral spirits. Today, the mineral spirits found in products like ours are more refined and processed (see hydrogenation, hydrotreating and distillation techniques) providing mixtures with varying boiling points, cleaning ability, and chemical composition.

The catchall phrase “Stoddard Solvent” is no longer adequate to tell the proper story. WD-40® does indeed have 50% mineral spirits, but they are refined and purified for specific characteristics needed to meet today’s performance, regulatory and safety requirements.“

I bet there is some industrial use. Maybe you need a coating for alloy?

https://www.ippmagazine.com/corrosion/m ... -coatings/
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:56 am

To extend the life of Mag castings, I've been told to "feed" them with WD40 or even better a product from the US Aviation and defence industry called Gibb's Oil. It maintains film on the surface stopping oxidisation. I have all my mag parts black dichromate treated as well.

With race wheels off my cars I have the crack tested periodically, the wee;s off the open wheeler were xrayed by an aviation company. A positive safety move the Australian Motorsport controlling body (CAMS) instigated is requirement for mag parts to be periodically crack tested, this followed a spate of accidents in F5000 cars, upright failures etc, many were found to have period uprights wheels etc.

With my 26R all magnesium parts, front uprights, axles were replaced. The Elfin is currently having new front and rear uprights cast.

My life worth the small price paid to replace then check.

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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:19 pm

I like Gibbs oil, expensive. And probably very close to many foaming spray oils. While Gibbs is like most penetrating oils, with Solvents. I still prefer Deep Creep.

I think what you are hoping to accomplish with WD40 is a coating of oil. What about a very thin coating of grease or spray engine oil on the mag, then drive a dusty road. In salty areas of Canada, many rust free cars have this treatment.
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PostPost by: Vali » Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:55 am

Thank you guys
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