Lotus Elan

door aperture reinforcement

PostPost by: Greg Cozier » Fri May 16, 2014 5:23 pm

Page 2 of the 26R homologation form says: "glass fibre reinforced plastic coachwork with metal bonded-in frames surrounding door apertures".

My 26R does not have the metal wire lattice work reinforcement. The car will have an extensive rollcage for tarmac rallying including bar through the sill and a door bar.

1. Do I need to have this for FIA scrutineers?
2. Do I need the frame for stiffness of the door apertures?
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PostPost by: patrics » Fri May 16, 2014 7:38 pm

Hi Greg
I take it you have the metal surrounding the door because the pedal box is bolted to something?

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Steve
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PostPost by: Greg Cozier » Fri May 16, 2014 7:51 pm

Dunno, would have to check. I was planning to reinforce the pedal box area for a brake bias box anyway. I definitely don't have the lattice-type bit that would be the inner sill on a steel monocoque car.
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Fri May 16, 2014 10:08 pm

Greg Cozier wrote:Dunno, would have to check. I was planning to reinforce the pedal box area for a brake bias box anyway. I definitely don't have the lattice-type bit that would be the inner sill on a steel monocoque car.


Would your planned reinforcement of the pedal-box not contravene any existing Homolgation requirement?
No brake-bias has ever been homolgated for the Elan- are you constructing a Jay Leno car for racing and hoping that you could somehow $$$$$????? by-pass the rules?
The Elan has nothing whatsoever to do with a steel "monocoque" car. Apples and oranges.
If you ain't got the steel re-bar lattice, you have some major work to do.


:twisted:
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PostPost by: Greg Cozier » Fri May 16, 2014 10:20 pm

elansprint71 wrote:[
Would your planned reinforcement of the pedal-box not contravene any existing Homolgation requirement?

FIA App. J 1965 Brakes: Any system improving the cooling or braking force of the braking system is allowed. The fitting of a dual pump or any type of device providing both a simultaneous action on the four wheels and a divided action on the front and rear wheels is authorized. Brake pads and linings are free not not the dimensions of the friction surfaces. The location of all brake pipes is free. The braking power may be increased subject to the original type (drum or disc) of brakes and the attachment system being maintained.

No brake-bias has ever been homolgated for the Elan-

doesn't need to be, free in period.

are you constructing a Jay Leno car for racing and hoping that you could somehow $$$$$????? by-pass the rules?

I run the Barbados Historic Rally Carnival and am responsible for technical regulation adherance along with the scrutineers.

The Elan has nothing whatsoever to do with a steel "monocoque" car. Apples and oranges.
If you ain't got the steel re-bar lattice, you have some major work to do.

The story of my life. I have to do fibreglass work anyway, just need to know if this needs to be included. So back to my question; how can I find a scrutineer who can advise?

:twisted:
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Fri May 16, 2014 11:33 pm

... I do so like posts like this..
They cheer up this now somewhat dull forum..

Now where is twincam man when u need him :)

More please!!! B
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat May 17, 2014 12:27 am

Hi Greg
To answer your original questions

The absence of the wire reinforcing is unlikely to be noticed unless you are a front running car, then people will start looking more closely for compliance issues.

However I would be inclinded to add the reinforcing even if not prompted by the scrutineers as the sill area is very weak without it and you will have trouble keeping the doors in place and not cracking it when you get in and out of the car or just with normal use stresses in the body. Lotus did not add it without reason.

cheers
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PostPost by: Greg Cozier » Sat May 17, 2014 1:28 am

rgh0 wrote:Hi Greg
To answer your original questions

The absence of the wire reinforcing is unlikely to be noticed unless you are a front running car, then people will start looking more closely for compliance issues.

However I would be inclinded to add the reinforcing even if not prompted by the scrutineers as the sill area is very weak without it and you will have trouble keeping the doors in place and not cracking it when you get in and out of the car or just with normal use stresses in the body. Lotus did not add it without reason.

cheers
Rohan


Thanks Rohan, that's the sort of input I was after. The shell seems VERY lightweight, I'm not sure who made it. I'm thinking I should add another layer of 'glass on the cabin and boot floors as well since it will be a rally car. Not having the reinforcing might be a blessing as it will allow Custom Cages to fit the rollcage and seat bars without having that in the way and then I can get it in after the cage is done.
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PostPost by: bill308 » Sat May 17, 2014 2:02 am

I may be possible to tie the sills to the sill bar with a series of fiberglass bulkheads, much like the main bearings on an engine block. Seat bars could run between the chassis and sill bars. Outboard seatbelt pickup might be attached to the sill bar.

I would think the lower corners and vertical walls of the door opening might still need something.

Bill
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PostPost by: Greg Cozier » Sat May 17, 2014 8:23 am

bill308 wrote:I may be possible to tie the sills to the sill bar with a series of fiberglass bulkheads, much like the main bearings on an engine block. Seat bars could run between the chassis and sill bars. Outboard seatbelt pickup might be attached to the sill bar.

I would think the lower corners and vertical walls of the door opening might still need something.

Bill


Thanks Bill. The rolling chassis and body are going to Custom Cages to weld a rollcage together. Major areas of concern for me as a rally driver are the seat and steering column mountings, I still can't believe people race these cars with seats bolted to the floor; we don't even do that with steel cars. I'm going to mount the steering column to the rollcage dash bar like we do in Gp2/4 Escorts.

When it comes back with the cage installed I'll do the fibreglass minor repairs, block holes, double-skin floors etc. and could glass the sill bars to the sills and then put in the wire lattice.

If anyone wants to see he rules under which these cars raced in period, this link is very helpful.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... pen&lang=a
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Thu May 29, 2014 12:03 pm

Since my rather flippant reply above, Greg, I've been turning this place over trying to find any useful period reference to the "reinforcement" around the door aperture and I've come across nothing of any use, I'm afraid.

I presume that you know the source of the lattice? It was concrete-reinforcement bar, commonly called "re-bar"; a life-time ago I bought steel as part of my job; re-bar was the absolute cheapest stuff on the market. Now you know why Chapman chose it. It is very easy to bend. :wink:
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