Lotus Elan

Rear competition pads

PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:50 am

I am half way through my last set of DS-11 rear pads for the Elan. I had a stock that I have slowly used up over the last 10+ years. The DS-11 were perfect as the lower coefficient of friction material balanced well with modern high coefficent front pads ( eg DS2000, DS2500, Hawk Blue, Porterfield R4) and the high weight transfer you get under braking with modern sticky rubber.

What are people using for rear competition pad material these days and where do you source it from?

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Rohan
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PostPost by: steveww » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:59 am

I have EBC black on the rear of my Elan. I have temperature sensitive paint on the calipers and the rears are not getting any where near as hot as the fronts and I have not had the rear lock first. So the lower friction of the black pads appears to work for me. However they do not get the abuse that you give yours during a race.

As you already know the problem with the rears is that there is a very limited choice of pads available.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:21 am

Steve
I tried EBC black and they tended to suffer rear brake fade when racing on tracks that are hard on the brakes due to overheating. The DS11 last about 3 years or around 3000 to 4000 miles of racing the EBC black lasted about 1000 miles also.

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PostPost by: steveww » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:08 pm

As I said you are probably harder on the brakes than during racing. The EBC black on the rear hold up OK for me during track days. I am running +2 brakes at the front though so more effort goes through the front. I have EBC green on the front but I have found that these start to fade at the end of a session. Not sure what to replace them with as I don't want a full race pad as they would not get up to temp on the road.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:42 am

Steve

You may want to try Ferodo DS2000 or DS2500. These work well from cold and are more fade resistant and last longer on the track I find. A problem with some of these high friction competition focused compounds is that they can be very abrasive to the discs when cold and can generate high disc wear in normal road use when not reaching normal racing temps. I dont know specifically how these Ferodo compounds are for road use but I am sure Ferodo can advise.

In the end you may need to change your pads between track days and normal road use.

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PostPost by: elandoc » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:08 am

Hi Rohan,
I use the DS 3000 F&R, but have changed my calipers to Wilwood 4 pot F and 2 pot rear - 44mm pistons, I think. The original Elan had about double the surface area of piston F to R, so I maintained this ratio. They work fine from cold, but really bite as they get to temp, and never any fade, even on the toughest downhill stages.
If anything, the bias could go a bit further to the rear, as there is never a hint of rear lock up, but I don't have a bias set up (do you?), so will stick with it for now.
The wear of the pads and discs isn't excessive, so far as I can see.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:42 pm

Hi Patrick

Thanks for the advice.

I had been thinking about trying DS3000 or similar from some other suppliers in both front and rear and probably adding a pressure limiting valve for the rear as I know my car has a tendency to lock up the rears with the same pads in both.

I can source DS3000 fronts for the standard Elan brakes but have not been able to source rear pads in that or similar modern competition materials.

I may need to find a suitable pad and cut it down to size for use on the rears.

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PostPost by: steveww » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:19 pm

I would be interested in details of how you mounted the Wilwood calipers on the Elan. Does this include a handbrake?
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PostPost by: mct340 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:13 pm

Patrick,
I thought I had the world's most expensive Elan but I don't have Wilwood calipers. Did you change the rotors? I find my stock brakes with Ferrodo pads pretty good for autocrossing- was it worth it? Do they fit with 13" rims?
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PostPost by: elandoc » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:34 am

Ah! Not an easy feat.
For the fronts I had new brackets machined up out of 7075T6 alloy - to go with the custom made bolt on hubs in the same material (I was on a "let's get rid of unsprung weight" kick).
The rears are mounted on quite simple little adaptor brackets. The handbrke calipers are mounted on the same brackets - sourced from a mountain bike - they work well enough for scrutineering, but I wouldn't try a handbrake turn (or, for that matter parking out of gear on any sort of incline).
As I said, my OCD was kicking in over unsprung weight. I belive the weights are: F 1.1Kg, R 720g, and hanbrake 120g. As I recall, I calculated the total weight saving to be about 4 Kg per corner.
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64 Morris Cooper S (now sold)
85 Ferrari 308 GTSi QV
79 Ferrari 400i
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PostPost by: elandoc » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:12 am

Hi Mike
My brakes were fine beforehand - +2 rotors and calipers with Cool Carbon pads. I didn't change the rotors, but I custom machined the new brackets to fit. I recently changed to new rotors - DBA slotted and dimpled - because the old ones were a bit flogged out after numerous tarmac rallies and sprints over the years. I can't say whether the pads were especially abrasive as they had done a lot of work anyway.
When I was planning all this, I rejected going to ventilated discs as they weren't necessary on such a light car and anyway they weigh too much!
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64 Morris Cooper S (now sold)
85 Ferrari 308 GTSi QV
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PostPost by: msd1107 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:12 pm

Re: unsprung weight quest.

Dave Bean has aluminum front hubs in his catalog for somebody wanting to go the light weight route. They can be ordered with the standard 3 3/4 in PCD, or any other and for both the early small spindle and later large spindle.

He also has light weight calipers and brackets in the catalog. And you can go to the larger +2 brake disc.

Put this together with forged aluminum wheels from superlite-wheels.com (I can't seem to get a response from Minilite for either mag wheels or light weight aluminum wheels)

That would give you about the lightest unsprung weight.

A resourceful person could lighten the upright and steering arm and brake disc.

Has anybody any other ideas or done anything differently?

David
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PostPost by: paros » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:03 pm

Hi Rohan

Just been moving back to UK after my time in Greece - and last race was a good 'un!
Pads - I use Mintex and this is with the normal baby Elan calipers. F6 at front and F4 at rear. Excellent and kind to the discs AND I seemt o otbrake the competition. After 15/20laps the pedal gets a bit spongy which is some fluid boiling but also pad kick back [ bit of left foot braking along staright for reassurance ]. The rears are now 2 seasons old. Fronts last about 4 or 5 races if lucky.

Re question on Minilite - they are not always best at responding Don Simons is the MD and he is great, but his sales people leave a lot to be desired. 5.5 Minilites about ?100 but fairly haevy the magnesium option is times 3 in cost.

Richard
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PostPost by: steveww » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:35 am

Richard,

Do you have the part numbers for the Mintex pads?

To solve your fluid boiling problem try using Casterol SRF brake fluid.
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PostPost by: paros » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:12 am

Steve
The Mintex pads numbers are I THINK
MGB524 for rear and MGB535 front - latter may be P16 as sometimes Mintex don't have the baby pads and a hacksaw is needed on the P16 pad.
Anyway contact Questmead, Alan Brown at [email protected] - the number 08707450584
Tell him Richard Ward suggested you contact him as they sometiems have to get the pads made to order. Price still reasonable at ?100 aprox for fronts. The F6 has a thermal barrier where the 4 does not - hence the way I use them.
Richard
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