26r identities and other info

[1ela]

Now the potentially VERY interesting stuff.

I think this R4 on the right? If so, where?

Note identifying oblong (?) above bumper.

we need help from bonsaichris


Michael

[1ela]

By the way, car 105 in the previous pic is a Lancia Flaminia Coupe

I had an RHD example 999NPP - broken up for spares

[bonsaichris]

Now the potentially VERY interesting stuff.

I think this R4 on the right? If so, where?

Note identifying oblong (?) above bumper.

we need help from bonsaichris


Michael

I cannot blow that picture up so it is impossible to be sure, I also dont know the date of it, if it is later than mid 64 it would be outside my knowledge

[1ela]

bonsaichris

Thanks for that and you are completely SPOT-ON, no pun intended.
Maybe what some need is this wrapper for a few undiscovered cars to appear from.
Good luck, Michael

[garyeanderson]

Evening all
I first met TonyT about 30 or so years ago.
I am sorry if this was before most friends out there were thought of but thats life.

IF you can link you 'chassis numbers' on p.1 with 26R numbers (their lies the rub) I am sure most people on this forum would be interested. It does not interest me in the slightest.
bonsaichris has unfortunately left the building due to silly stuff. WE ARE ALL THE LOSERS, because what that chap knows should have been recorded !!

By the way, the road/26r chassis nr. link begins in the 2*** numbers - Sorry

Funnily enough, I AM interested in this corelation with numbers with regard to certain pre-war RILEY's.

I am not trying to be argumentative or claim that I am offering anything new or actually know anything. There have been scans of the day book posted in the past. They came from late Frank Bertrang. Someone asked that they be removed so like most of what I have offered on this forum, have been edited once or twice and then finally as I said removed. I was not there and I can't say what is true and what is not. I can only read what is offered and try to make sense of it. At some point in time some one at Lotus thought it may be important to track the major components. These would be Chassis number, Body number and Engine number and who it was sold or invoiced to and on what date. This is my best "guess" as to how it sort of happened. After the prototype and the first pre-production Elans came about and there were orders placed, someone at Lotus made up a list, there were 39 numbers scribed down the left hand side of each page as there were 39 lines. As order went out the door a ledger was created. Before they left Lotus, the Chassis #, Body # and Engine # were recorded on each line that corresponded with an order or build sheet in a sequence and these were the Unit numbers. At some point the Chassis and unit numbers were "merged".
Now this is a bit off topic here but there were a couple of scans of the pages that had which unit numbers were not Elan's and if that "unit number" wasn't a an Elan 1600 then a comment placed as to the disposition of the unit.

So getting back to the 26r angle and back on topic, a couple of the scans that turned up had R/Elan scribed in for the name starting with this sheet, most were invoiced in January or February of 1964. If you look at this page the Unit numbers of 3376, 3396, and 3406



are left blank with the "name" of R/Elan and "No Other" info on that unit number is written in. There is another scan of one more page with 9 more R/Elan of which the other Elans we invoiced in the late March and April 1964 time frame.
these "non-Unit numbers" on this page would be 3490, 3491, 3501, 3505, 3506, 3507 (this actually has the "unit number" scribed in), 3508, 3524 and 3525.


So, these 2 scans and the fact that Frank Bertrang didn't post them all but did a compilation of all of the Elan numbers that he had (200 plus pages) as well as all of the Europa, Plus2's Esprits, on several others. This allowed me to do a search of the list that he had for blank data. Michael, those are the numbers that are on the very first page of this topic. Not all are 26r I am sure, but when you know absolutely nothing, you need to start some place and make some suppositions to try and figure out what is what. If I am never wrong, than I have never said or written anything in my life. If you put nothing out for folks to look at than there is NO SUBJECT under discussion. So I could have left this topic blank and there is a good chance we would not be discussing it right now. I talk, write, post photos. If I am wrong, thats ok someone will offer another viewpoint Just as Michael and Chris have of late. They add to this topic just as others have and its all good, when folks add what they know it confirms or not some of what has been posted in the past. If I am boring everyone than I can go away just like the rest that have been here before and thought that they were just wasting their time. I don't feel that way, the topics that I start seem to be well read and they do get folks to offer up some things that they may have all but forgotten. I hope all of this info survives everyone that is here today trying to learn or explain to/from others. We have some viewpoints that are not accepted or wanted in some cases, others don't want to share what they know or have learned over the years and thats ok with me too. The bottom line is, when your dead if you never told anyone what you knew , you never knew anything because it was never passed on. Thats what this topic is about and many of the others that I have tried to get going . Hate my ass for what ever reason you want but This is history and I hope that we can get out for EVERYONE. that is ALL of us, the enthusiasts, the guy on the street, the thieves world, EVERYONE so there is a level playing field. I am never going to own one, I passed them by in the 90's as to much money for what you got. I just want to have fun on my limited budget. You all do what it is you want, I will too.

removed scans at the request of someone.

[1ela]

Hi Gary
Thanks for your stuff which I hope will be more legible when its printed off.

IF R4 were still mine, I would give you the number, but the vehicle is no longer my property.
I have gone back to my copy of the log-book (registration details) and I have clearly noted the number which is earlier than your sheets.
Remember this was (is) a Lotus Components chassis-plated car (yes I still have a clear photo of the chassis-plate I took myself.) Also, 40+ years ago nobody particularly cared tuppence about the history of these things, and as for provenance !! That 1973 stuff pushed up the price of 5star (101 octane) X4 (FOUR) in a very short space of time, so who wanted a 250GTO with 6 twinchokes over in UK. I had the equivalent of a V12 5-litre with 6 Webers in my 2 Lancias.
But I don't want to get off the subject. Regards, Michael

[garyeanderson]

My interest is in the Elan and mostly the S2 as I own some. I have a fairly good list of those and I am satisfied with what I have and been given as far as what they are. I have asked for info on this forum and have received some in reference to the Coupes. Not a lot is/was known about what percent were built as Coupes. I think I have a good handle on that but getting ANY info from members of this forum just is not productive. I stopped asking those questions as its like a tree falling in the forest. My guess is people just don't understand the question or why I am asking. As you say "wasn't important then". I think it is now I and I have been trying to gather as much as I can before it's lost for good. I have Elan's and won't be buying any more unless they are in effect, given to me. What folks share is totally up to them. I can't change folks ideas of what they think, There are people that are pretty smooth talking. Well in a couple days you have a good idea of who I am and what I think. I don't hide behind some facade of a user name, the name change was due to folks "knowing me" before/if they responded to their advertisements on the local craigslist.org putting me disadvantage. I guess one thing no one calls me is a "Tree Hugger", Not sure why but I gett that feeling on this forum a lot. This topic was a snow ball that gathered momentum because people here were and are passionate about them. I used to like putting these Elans back together the way I wanted, when you start with not much more than a tag, you can take liberties and end up with an Elan that just can't be beaten for the fun factor. The 26r is just a subset of the early roadsters that I love thats all.

Gary

ps - There are a few other scns but none that have any info on the 26r, please do it soon as they have gone away, as they DO NOT belong on this forum any longer. pm me if you didn't get them.

[elansprint71]

If bonsaichris does leave this forum due to yet more offensive and stupid remarks by Ed Law, I, for one will be very upset.

If that vote "Ed off the forum? poll" were to be re-run today; I believe that the result would be very different.

I have sent my thoughts to the forum administrator.

Enough is enough.

[garyeanderson]

If bonsaichris does leave this forum due to yet more offensive and stupid remarks by Ed Law, I, for one will be very upset.

If that vote "Ed off the forum? poll" were to be re-run today; I believe that the result would be very different.

I have sent my thoughts to the forum administrator.

Enough is enough.

Hi Pete

If you want to do the moderator thing please apply for the job and stop wasting Jeff's time. I thought we were trying to get this back on topic and not continue this"silliness". I am near the point of signing up for the position. Come on, if its so bad here why the hell do some stick around.

some folks have it figured out - aka the silent treatment that some folks are so good at.

Gary

[bigvalvehead]

Reminiscences are nice but they are not as concrete as letter head information ; They muddy the water as far as the truth is concerned ----I f one bases his expert ship on these hearsay stories then the actual facts are hidden and the expert can make any claim true or not . Perhaps thats the Idea to have a confused bunch of stories to pick and choose the information that suits the situation .But the original concept here was to find that which the factory cannot confirm reguarding car numbers number built equipment supplied and on and on .NOT A LIST COMPILED BY ONE OR TWO PEOPLE WHO CLAIM STEWARDSHIP but actual Lotus information . My letter confirms that Lotus has no idea of car numbers --owners -- eqipment on cars or dates built or shipped so how can any one claim that expert knowledge The one with the loudest claim to being an expert is not always the one with the greatest knowledge .I spoke to the Canadian ex dealer and he had very scketchy information .I would not buy a car based on any information gathered here after page 3 === e

Ed
your off on one again.
Your famous letter is from GROUP LOTUS not Lotus Components who were responsible for building the 26R's.
The letter states that Group Lotus has no record of Team(lotus Components) numbers or numbering system. It does not state that no such records ever existed

Does your car have a chassis plate of any description? or has it been mislaid somewhere in your garage.

Are you saying that I and others have conjured up a list with customer names, chassis nos, engine nos, body colour etc etc out of thin air. I also have a copy of a sales list for the main Japanese importer which shows the chassis nos and dates of the 26R's that were shipped to them and just happens to tie in with the production details on the 26R build list that I and others have a copy of.

I have HARD EVIDENCE of what was built where it went and when and I'm afraid your car is not on the list.

Have a nice day
Dave

[elansprint71]

If bonsaichris does leave this forum due to yet more offensive and stupid remarks by Ed Law, I, for one will be very upset.

If that vote "Ed off the forum? poll" were to be re-run today; I believe that the result would be very different.

I have sent my thoughts to the forum administrator.

Enough is enough.

Hi Pete

If you want to do the moderator thing please apply for the job and stop wasting Jeff's time. I thought we were trying to get this back on topic and not continue this"silliness". I am near the point of signing up for the position. Come on, if its so bad here why the hell do some stick around.

some folks have it figured out - aka the silent treatment that some folks are so good at.

Gary

I think that all the silliness is coming from the direction of Niagara... again. If you are near to signing up for, the yet to be announced, position of Moderator, please be advised that you will hear from me every time anyone puts up offensive remarks like the ones Ed has treated us to.

[garyeanderson]

If bonsaichris does leave this forum due to yet more offensive and stupid remarks by Ed Law, I, for one will be very upset.

If that vote "Ed off the forum? poll" were to be re-run today; I believe that the result would be very different.

I have sent my thoughts to the forum administrator.

Enough is enough.

Hi Pete

If you want to do the moderator thing please apply for the job "and stop wasting Jeff's time. I thought we were trying to get this back on topic and not continue this"silliness". I am near the point of signing up for the position. Come on, if its so bad here why the hell do some stick around.

some folks have it figured out - aka the silent treatment that some folks are so good at.

Gary

I think that all the silliness is coming from the direction of Niagara... again. If you are near to signing up for, the yet to be announced, position of Moderator, please be advised that you will hear from me every time anyone puts up offensive remarks like the ones Ed has treated us to.

I probably wouldn't have enough time to go for drives in the middle of winter, let alone post all of those boring pictures of mine in "what does your Elan look like"

Gary

[RIB]

bonsaichris and Michael,

I have no idea where the photograph was taken, but I have blown it up (simply copied and pasted it into a word document and then expanded). The roof looks more like a soft top and not a Shapecraft. I have 3 photographs of Les Arnold racing the car in 1964, all from Ted Walker, Ferret Fotographics, but none show an oblong above the bumper, perhaps this was added later.

Ian

[bonsaichris]

Just to clarify, as I have explained to one or two people who have contacted me, I have not and am not leaving the forum. I will continue to read it and if I feel I have some useful information I will add it. People who know me know that I do not deal in rumour or make up stories for effect. I have only one wish, that is to share any information I have whilst I am still in a position to do that, I may not be able to take my money with me when my time is up, but the information sure as hell will go with me.. If I am unsure about what I say I will be the first to say so. I have been trying to contact Michael - 1ela by PM and email, I am not sure whether the messages have got to you, if you can let me know I will send them via a different route

[bonsaichris]

Hi Ian
Yes, I have just carried out the same exercise (cant help being a bit slow) It does look very much like a soft top, and almost certainly not a shapecraft of any description. I would love to see those pics if you could post them. They must all pre date Aug 30th and Zandvort. As I said before Les`s car never had any ID on it, I only needed it on one of the cars and the half roundel was always on Barrys.