Lotus Elan

Knock off spiners working loose on new alloys

PostPost by: holywood3645 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:37 am

Has anyone had an issue with the knock off/on spinners working loose on newly fitted alloys (minilites or panasports)
What did you do to correct?

Thanks

James
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PostPost by: StressCraxx » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:30 am

Hello James,

How much torque to tighten the spinners? Should be 220 lbs/ft.

Right hand thread hubs on the right side of the car, Left hand threads on the left side of the car.

There are multiple discussions on this if you search.
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PostPost by: theelanman » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:02 am

holywood3645 wrote:Has anyone had an issue with the knock off/on spinners working loose on newly fitted alloys (minilites or panasports)
What did you do to correct?

Thanks

James



mine worked loose once......had just had the wheels refurbish and there was too much detritus around the seat....although at the time Id only got the mallet to fit.......so I just cleaned up the contact surface (wheel/spinner) and gave it a good knock on.......never happened again......

I know have the spinner tool and its very easy to torque them up although I use 200lb/ft......
although I have found that I can get the car to roll over my foot at the top limit whilst tightening

:-)
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:06 am

This or a very similar problem has been discussed on here before.
The fault may lay with your wheel "thickness"
Check to see if the spinners are actually clamping the wheel & not bottoming out on the thread.

This fault has been known on some "minilite" type alloy wheels & I should refer you to posts on the subject by Miked who I believe discovered & discussed the problem resolution.

Cheers
John
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PostPost by: Alexm » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:37 am

Hi,

The bevel of the wheel nut does need bedding in against the bevel of the wheel or they will come loose with a bit of running. Usually a second re-tightening does the trick.

Formula 1 wheels/nuts are always bedded in before being used in anger or they too will come loose!

Alex
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:20 am

Alexm wrote:Hi,

The bevel of the wheel nut does need bedding in against the bevel of the wheel or they will come loose with a bit of running. Usually a second re-tightening does the trick.

Formula 1 wheels/nuts are always bedded in before being used in anger or they too will come loose!

Alex


Based on that theory lots of new bits should be falling apart!
You amaze me with that sort of story-----------Sorry!
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:54 am

A couple of reasons why it may occur

The new alloys may be tight on the pegs and the wheel is not seating fully on the hub. I had this when I first fitted my spare wheel on my plus 2 that had never been used in the first 10 years of the cars life and it worked loose as i did not fully seat and was held slightly off the hub by the pegs, in use it worked further down the pegs towards the hub and the spinner came loose.

In addition the shape of the spinner will not match the shape of the wheel mounting surface precisely as has been described in other posts. The matching surfaces do need to bed in and the wheel alloy and any steel liner deform slightly to give a matching surface with the spinner. Loosening and retightening the spinners 3 or 4 times to the correct torque should achieve this bedding in. if you don't do that the wheel may come loose in initial use.

regards
Rohan
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PostPost by: miked » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:26 pm

Thanks John. I found it, see below. The main bit is at the bottom. As John says some don't actually grip the wheel collar, they bottom out on the spinner threads (as some are not cut in as deep) before they even bear on the shoulder of the spacer collar. May not be this but it has occurred to several people. I had to trim material off the hubs to sort out. I never gave mine chance to come loose but I could wiggle them on the hub. That bad. :roll:

Mike :D

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PostPost by: [email protected] » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:49 pm

I have encountered new wheel knock ons coming loose for all the reasons mentioned but also because folks are too timid with torquing the spinners buy using plastic "dead blow" mallets. Not wanting to ding the new spinners is understandable but proper torque is required.
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PostPost by: patrics » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:41 pm

Hi
I had a problem with my Minilites when new but these were brought a few years ago ? probably 5 not sure

They fitted fine on the fronts but didn?t fit on the rear. The problem was that the stainless insert was too long and bottomed out on the rear hub before the wheel was torqued up - it left about a mm of play so was difficult to spot, after a lot of convincing they machined the supplied inserts down ? the newer ones were much shorter.
I am not complaining about the quality - shit happens and they sorted it out,but as with all thing we buy for a our cars we have to check.

Regards
Steve
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PostPost by: tyasman » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:53 am

Just noticed this post - I have new Minilites with new spinners and I nearly lost a rear wheel last week. Stopped the car when steering wandered on the road, and "funny noises" when pulling to a stop in a layby. Just caught it in time, the spinner was very loose. I checked on the site, and threads are on the right way round on each side. Have since re-tightened and marked one of the spinner's ears on each wheel against a marker on the wheel for an easy reference point (like the markers on lorry wheels) Don't worry chaps, nothing permanent or visible to others. Re- tightened and all fine so far, but the mallet is now very accessible in the front of the car (beside the fire extinguisher!). I reckon the insert wasn't bedded in properly. I've seen mention of spinner tools before, but where can I buy one? Sue Miller? Good idea, but more kit to carry on foreign trips?
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:19 pm

Hello Tyasman, I'm want to answer your inquiry about spinner tools. Go to the business and vendors listing section. I just updated my knockoff tool page and it is showing at the top of the page. This subject has been talked about over the years about the problems with some of the wheels and spinners on how some are made.
If you need to know where a tool can be found, you've found it. I had a new panasport wheel come loose when I first finished my restoration and did not tighten the spinner to 200 ftlbs. The Panasport wheels have the center piece beveled to match the knockoff spinner. Some do not have the matching bevel.
Hope that helps.
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PostPost by: gordont » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:18 am

I lost my rear RHS wheel on Friday, fortunately in 1st gear and at walking pace so although a bit of body damage could have been far worse.
I have kelsport 26r wheels with 5 peg drive hubs and alloy open ended spinners.
Interestingly I had lost all but one of the pegs.
Okay, few new pegs installed but other than 210 foot lb of tightening what is best solution/prevention of this? What are others doing?
I have read that we should lube between the wheel and spinner but not the threaded area - I have not tried but interested if others have
Hole in spinner and wire to wheel? Anyone tried this?
Gordon
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:38 pm

Hello Gordon,
Lotus and Cobras and possibly others have pegs drive hubs which means the spinner has to loosen up enough to have the wheel spin off. I've been told that there are two different sized pegs and are pressed in. If the pegs came out, they may have been the wrong size.
The Halibrand spinners have a tiny hole drilled in one the spinner's ears for safety wiring the spinners.
The attached photo shows a hole on the top ear of the Halibrand spinner. A similar hole can be drilled on 26R spinners as an added safety method. Safety wiring the spinners will keep the spinners from spinning off but if the pegs are lost the whole system fails.
You are correct about the lube.
The other photo shows the tool that fits the hollow centered 26R type spinners.

Hope that helps,
Sarto
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PostPost by: holywood3645 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:01 pm

I looked a 2 26R cars at the Coranado Speed week earilier in the year. I noticed a couple of things related to this post.
1) all the 26R spinners were safety wired to a wheel spoke, Pretty standard for racing cars but also a useful idea on a road car.
2) the 26R;s had the peg drives fitted to the Wheels (as opposed to the Hubs) I can think why this would be also benificial on a road car. But not sure if anyone ever has done that on a 5 peg drive setup.

My problems in the orginal post were addressed when the Steel ring bedded ans the peg holes were cleaned from the thick paint applied to the wheeels when new. The 3 ear tighting tool is also somthing that helps. I still check the torque regulaly and often can get a click or 2 more, Not sure if this is due to loostening or just things bedding in. The safety wire would provided some security.

I would love to fit the 26R style spinners for the regular elan hub, but they seem to be more expensive than the new minilites

Merry Christmas to all you out there
James.
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