Lotus Elan

Spot the difference.....;-)

PostPost by: foxoles » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:53 am

I was a bit taken aback when I saw this.......

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lotus/elan-pre-76/lotus-elan-dhc-sprint-1973/1665072
Nice car, reasonable-ish price

On the same page...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lotus/elan-pre-76/lotus-elan-sprint-dhc-1973--road-tax-exempt-built-1972/1733320

?10K markup!!!!
Is 30% a normal dealer markup?


Still looking for a S3 SE DHC in any colour other than yellow.
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PostPost by: theelanman » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:59 am

typical UK sportscars........
no wonder not many people trust them.....
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:22 am

First ad now withdrawn.

30% is at the top end of dealer mark up, but 25% is not uncommon from my experience in following the sales of another Lotus model on behalf of the owners club.

However, they do not really expect a knowledgeable buyer to pay this price, it simply provides them with a whole lot of haggle room.

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PostPost by: 512BB » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:01 pm

So was the original advert placed by a private seller Foxoles, and UKSC then bought it and marked it up? I did not see the first ad.

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PostPost by: trw99 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:24 pm

This car was first for sale in June this year in Yorkshire. It would have had Dellortos fitted when it left the factory judged purely by its date of first registration, 22 Mar 73 in Cambridge.

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PostPost by: theelanman » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:28 pm

512BB wrote:So was the original advert placed by a private seller Foxoles, and UKSC then bought it and marked it up? I did not see the first ad.

Leslie



did UKSC buy it...????
I only ask as I've always heard they act as agents....
its a very strange way to do business when I asked them.......
with my old +2 they wanted me to give it to them to sell......
basically I leave it with them.....when they sell it they give me what I wanted......well that was never going to happen....lol
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:00 pm

UKSC do sell cars "on commission" (not uncommon I think with "classic" cars)

Two basic arrangements that I have come across with other trade sellers (there are of course agreements / contracts to sign that contain a lot of details) :-

1. You agree a price that the trader guarantees to pay you in the event of a sale. You then leave the car with them, & if it sells for more they keep the difference.
2. You agree to pay them a certain % of the final selling price, & again leave the car with the trader to sell.

Both provide the trader with apparent "stock" to sell, but at no capital outlay.

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PostPost by: foxoles » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:18 pm

I wonder if I could haggle them down to ?29K :wink:

Withdrawn ad for those who missed it....

elanad.jpg and
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:56 pm

A bit off post, but a real example of what happened in the Lotus Sunbeam world not too long ago :-

1. A members sells a decent condition car to an apparent private seller for ?12.5k cash (not having advertised it on the Club forum)

2. Within a week the car appears on a traders web site priced at ?19.95k.

3. A couple of weeks later a member buys the car from the trader for ?16.5k cash.

That's ?4k gross profit in a month for doing bugger all apart from a full valet!!

Nice work if you can get it!

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PostPost by: theelanman » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:09 pm

Maulden7 wrote:A bit off post, but a real example of what happened in the Lotus Sunbeam world not too long ago :-

1. A members sells a decent condition car to an apparent private seller for ?12.5k cash (not having advertised it on the Club forum)

2. Within a week the car appears on a traders web site priced at ?19.95k.

3. A couple of weeks later a member buys the car from the trader for ?16.5k cash.

That's ?4k gross profit in a month for doing bugger all apart from a full valet!!

Nice work if you can get it!

Dave M.



sound familiar.....
my mate was rebuilding his +2 and decided that to fund it he'd sell his esprit....
sold the esprit to a dealer at a knocked down price as it was due its A,B or C service (the one that involves everything getting changed, belts etc.....very ???????????).......IIRC ?8k
seen one week later having had nothing done to it.......not even a wash (never mind the service it needed)......it was up for ?14k......
:roll:
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PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:57 pm

OK, let me argue the other side (dons flameproof jacket...)

The motor trader is providing a service & has costs to cover, so all extra moneys are not pure profit.

The trader has regular customers that may be looking for specific cars & may have marketing exposure that we as individuals do not have access to.

I had a Porsche 968 Cab that I was bored with & tried to sell for a good price for over a year, I advertised locally, put it on Porsche forums, tried eBay, parked it by the side of the street with a sign on it... Just to add insult to injury during that period someone drove into it & a tree fell on it during hurricane Sandy.

In the end I sold it to a "Porsche specialist" who sold it within 4 months for $4000 more than he paid for it. Good luck to him, it enabled me to buy my Elan at a good price.

In the example given of the Lotus Sunbeam shame on the seller for not putting the car on the forum. As wise buyers we know to search forums like this to get a good buy.

p.s. What's wrong with someone making money anyway?
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PostPost by: adigra » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:04 pm

I learned a valuable lesson with UKSC.

But this kind of business is nothing new and it strangely makes many cars sell faster as it ads perceived desirability.

My FIL had a look at an AC Cobra from a dealer which was around ?450k, which had been advertised for a long time without sale. Soon after another dealer bought it and advertised it for ?550k, it sold without two weeks...

I think it makes people think that the time is running out and the prices are getting away from them, plus top price "suggests" that it's a top car. It's rather clever tactics and it often works.

Although, I think that Sprint was really good value at ?28k.
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:16 pm

OK, let me argue the other side (dons flameproof jacket...)

The motor trader is providing a service & has costs to cover, so all extra moneys are not pure profit.


Agree absolutely, that's why I called it "gross profit" in my post (no flameproof anything needed), but those overheads probably amount to circa 10% of turnover max, so on ?16.5k of turnover, circa ?1650 of that gross profit is budgeted to cover costs, that leaves circa ?2350 of net profit i.e. over 14% net profit. Lots of businesses these days would like to see a net margin like that (& actually applied to this car the net margin was almost certainly higher as I doubt that any trader would budget to turn over any stock in 4 weeks)

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PostPost by: theelanman » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:37 pm

pharriso wrote:p.s. What's wrong with someone making money anyway?


lol.......I don't have a problem with it.....its their business at the end of the day.....
Im just always amazed that an individual is unable to sell their car at say ?5k.....
but along comes a dealer.....whacks the price to ?10k and its sold within a couple of months....

I think it speak more about the buyers.......lol.....
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PostPost by: foxoles » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:58 pm

Very true, it seems some private sellers just want to sell the car asap.
When I sold my Europa I was quite happy to wait for as long as it would take to sell.
I've seen some dealers wait for 6 months to a year to sell a car - hanging out for the price they want.

I still think that 33% increase (or even more if they beat the guy down) is excessive and forcing up prices - could be said to be inflationary :wink: are Elans included in the Chancellors CPI calculations?
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