Fiberglass foot well meltdown from Headers, Lots of smoke
10 posts
• Page 1 of 1
For some reason, (This has never happened before) after starting my
1970 Elan S4 SE after re wiring it, The headers got so hot, it melted
my drivers side footwell box. The box next to the headers melted,
smoked and it is now distorted. It now has a big bulge about 2" x3"
closer to the headers right where the steering shaft comes out. Now
the box is within 3/4" of the header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20
minutes, and no more smoke or melting. Now I need to fix the
fiberglass box, cut out the bulge, repair, and now I wish to install a
heat sheild all across the foot well/header area.. Any ideas how to do
this?,, What heat sheild material to use,, Ect.. Why did the headers
get so hot?? Thanks in advance..
1970 Elan S4 SE after re wiring it, The headers got so hot, it melted
my drivers side footwell box. The box next to the headers melted,
smoked and it is now distorted. It now has a big bulge about 2" x3"
closer to the headers right where the steering shaft comes out. Now
the box is within 3/4" of the header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20
minutes, and no more smoke or melting. Now I need to fix the
fiberglass box, cut out the bulge, repair, and now I wish to install a
heat sheild all across the foot well/header area.. Any ideas how to do
this?,, What heat sheild material to use,, Ect.. Why did the headers
get so hot?? Thanks in advance..
- "mooremfg"
Are you sure that the headers are intact? Has a weld/seam let go, close to
the fibreglass, where heat flow is now unrestricted? If the motor was
otherwise running OK, I'd look for this type of failure first.
If all is OK above, then exhaust temps are way way high (mixture totally
leaned out?).
Good lesson to the rest of us - of course, you had your car-mounted
extinguisher handy, didn't you? Let us know the cause of the problem.
Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt
-----Original Message-----
From: mooremfg [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/06/20 10:57
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Fiberglass foot well meltdown from Headers, Lots of
smoke
For some reason, (This has never happened before) after starting my
1970 Elan S4 SE after re wiring it, The headers got so hot, it melted
my drivers side footwell box. The box next to the headers melted,
smoked and it is now distorted. It now has a big bulge about 2" x3"
closer to the headers right where the steering shaft comes out. Now
the box is within 3/4" of the header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20
minutes, and no more smoke or melting. Now I need to fix the
fiberglass box, cut out the bulge, repair, and now I wish to install a
heat sheild all across the foot well/header area.. Any ideas how to do
this?,, What heat sheild material to use,, Ect.. Why did the headers
get so hot?? Thanks in advance..
***********************************************************************************
AVIS DE NON-RESPONSABILITE:
Ce document transmis par courrier electronique est destine uniquement a la personne ou a l'entite a qui il est adresse et peut contenir des
renseignements confidentiels et assujettis au secret professionnel. La
confidentialite et le secret professionnel demeurent malgre l'envoi de ce
document a la mauvaise adresse electronique. Si vous n'etes pas le
destinataire vise ou la personne chargee de remettre ce document a son destinataire, veuillez nous en informer sans delai et detruire ce document ainsi que toute copie qui en aurait ete faite.Toute distribution, reproduction ou autre utilisation de ce document est
strictement interdite. De plus, le Groupe Financiere Banque Nationale et ses filiales ne peuvent pas etre tenus responsables des dommages pouvant etre causes par des virus ou des erreurs de transmission.
DISCLAIMER:
This documentation transmitted by electronic mail is intended for the use of the individual to whom or the entity to which it is addressed
and may contain information which is confidential and privileged.
Confidentiality and privilege are not lost by this documentation having
been sent to the wrong electronic mail address. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient please notify the sender immediately and destroy this document as well as any copies of it. Any distribution, reproduction or other use of this document is strictly prohibited. National Bank Financial Group and its affiliates cannot be held liable for any damage that may be caused by viruses or transmission errors.
***********************************************************************************
the fibreglass, where heat flow is now unrestricted? If the motor was
otherwise running OK, I'd look for this type of failure first.
If all is OK above, then exhaust temps are way way high (mixture totally
leaned out?).
Good lesson to the rest of us - of course, you had your car-mounted
extinguisher handy, didn't you? Let us know the cause of the problem.
Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt
-----Original Message-----
From: mooremfg [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/06/20 10:57
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Fiberglass foot well meltdown from Headers, Lots of
smoke
For some reason, (This has never happened before) after starting my
1970 Elan S4 SE after re wiring it, The headers got so hot, it melted
my drivers side footwell box. The box next to the headers melted,
smoked and it is now distorted. It now has a big bulge about 2" x3"
closer to the headers right where the steering shaft comes out. Now
the box is within 3/4" of the header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20
minutes, and no more smoke or melting. Now I need to fix the
fiberglass box, cut out the bulge, repair, and now I wish to install a
heat sheild all across the foot well/header area.. Any ideas how to do
this?,, What heat sheild material to use,, Ect.. Why did the headers
get so hot?? Thanks in advance..
***********************************************************************************
AVIS DE NON-RESPONSABILITE:
Ce document transmis par courrier electronique est destine uniquement a la personne ou a l'entite a qui il est adresse et peut contenir des
renseignements confidentiels et assujettis au secret professionnel. La
confidentialite et le secret professionnel demeurent malgre l'envoi de ce
document a la mauvaise adresse electronique. Si vous n'etes pas le
destinataire vise ou la personne chargee de remettre ce document a son destinataire, veuillez nous en informer sans delai et detruire ce document ainsi que toute copie qui en aurait ete faite.Toute distribution, reproduction ou autre utilisation de ce document est
strictement interdite. De plus, le Groupe Financiere Banque Nationale et ses filiales ne peuvent pas etre tenus responsables des dommages pouvant etre causes par des virus ou des erreurs de transmission.
DISCLAIMER:
This documentation transmitted by electronic mail is intended for the use of the individual to whom or the entity to which it is addressed
and may contain information which is confidential and privileged.
Confidentiality and privilege are not lost by this documentation having
been sent to the wrong electronic mail address. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient please notify the sender immediately and destroy this document as well as any copies of it. Any distribution, reproduction or other use of this document is strictly prohibited. National Bank Financial Group and its affiliates cannot be held liable for any damage that may be caused by viruses or transmission errors.
***********************************************************************************
- s2lola
- Third Gear
- Posts: 289
- Joined: 16 Jan 2004
I'm with Bill on this. Fuel mixture is too lean.
As far as a shield is concerned, I used an aluminum "Bakelite" baking pan
which is basically two sheets of aluminum with an air space in between. The
pans come in various sizes and I cut one to fit on the inside of the chassis near
the exhaust. I screwed it to the chassis with some sheet metal screws. I
know it doesn't cover the upper part of the footwell, but this modification made
all the difference that was necessary. Good luck.
Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
As far as a shield is concerned, I used an aluminum "Bakelite" baking pan
which is basically two sheets of aluminum with an air space in between. The
pans come in various sizes and I cut one to fit on the inside of the chassis near
the exhaust. I screwed it to the chassis with some sheet metal screws. I
know it doesn't cover the upper part of the footwell, but this modification made
all the difference that was necessary. Good luck.
Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
- Frank Howard
- Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 1182
- Joined: 30 Mar 2004
I had the same thing occur when my plastic washer hose brushed up
against the header and started a small confligration under the hood
at the foot box as I pulled onto the field at a local British car
show! With extinguisher in hand, I quickly put it out. (Won third
place in the Lotus class for my performance, and purchased a second
extinguisher at the show for my trip home!) I have subsequently
found a reflective heat shield material with an adhesive backing at
the local speed shop... about $20US for a 2 foot square piece. Trim
to fit, really easy to install, and gives me some piece of mind.
Gary
'71 Sprint Coupe
___________________________________________________________________
The headers got so hot, it melted my drivers side footwell box. The
box next to the headers melted, smoked and it is now distorted. It
now has a big bulge about 2" x3" closer to the headers right where
the steering shaft comes out. Now the box is within 3/4" of the
header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20 minutes, and no more smoke or
melting. Now I need to fix the fiberglass box, cut out the bulge,
repair, and now I wish to install a heat sheild all across the foot
well/header area.. Any ideas how to do this?,, What heat sheild
material to use,, Ect..
against the header and started a small confligration under the hood
at the foot box as I pulled onto the field at a local British car
show! With extinguisher in hand, I quickly put it out. (Won third
place in the Lotus class for my performance, and purchased a second
extinguisher at the show for my trip home!) I have subsequently
found a reflective heat shield material with an adhesive backing at
the local speed shop... about $20US for a 2 foot square piece. Trim
to fit, really easy to install, and gives me some piece of mind.
Gary
'71 Sprint Coupe
___________________________________________________________________
The headers got so hot, it melted my drivers side footwell box. The
box next to the headers melted, smoked and it is now distorted. It
now has a big bulge about 2" x3" closer to the headers right where
the steering shaft comes out. Now the box is within 3/4" of the
header pipe #3.. Ran the car for 20 minutes, and no more smoke or
melting. Now I need to fix the fiberglass box, cut out the bulge,
repair, and now I wish to install a heat sheild all across the foot
well/header area.. Any ideas how to do this?,, What heat sheild
material to use,, Ect..
-
archigator - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 554
- Joined: 15 Sep 2003
This is why I love elan.net, many of you have experience with
this .. As far as the cause, I am sure the fuel mix is too lean, we
are now just getting the car up and running after 2 months of dry
dock rewiring the dash harness.
The car runs like crap right now.. Undrivable,,,,I have an
ignition problem, first my Pertronix points failed to work, I then
changed to NEW breaker points, new condensor, spark plug wires, new
rotor..Etc. We tried to start,, NO GO, I then unhooked the tach wire
(from coil,,negative, to tach position 3( i have disabled the anti
theft switch) It fired right up when the tach wire was removed from
the coil. But still running rough,,missing, and the way too hot
headers.. One peculiar item is when the key is turned to start, the
car wont fire, but as soon as you back off the key to normal running
position, it runs fine..My solenoid may not be releasing..I did have
to raise the idle screw a bit..
My guess is my Pertronix points were fine, I may have missed
something re wiring the dash harness.. Something is funny in the
wiring is my guess. Any ideas??
GOOD NEWS,, The fiberglass foot box is FINE, I looked inside
the footwell and noticed the bulge, curve, towards the headers is
factory correct so the steering column impact clamp will clear if
adjusted that high up the column. The fiberglass is intact and
strong. , Just a small burn on the interior jute insulation and a
few fibers burned on the outside footwell box. No distortion, no
repair needed, I will install NEW space age heat sheild matting
inside the footwell, and a Heat shield outside between the headers
and the footwell box. Looks like I have 5/8" of clearance now,,Yes,
I had the fire extinguisher ready, and started the car 5 feet from a
garden hose. Lots of smoke, but no real damage..Tim Moore 1970 Elan
DHC S4 SE..
this .. As far as the cause, I am sure the fuel mix is too lean, we
are now just getting the car up and running after 2 months of dry
dock rewiring the dash harness.
The car runs like crap right now.. Undrivable,,,,I have an
ignition problem, first my Pertronix points failed to work, I then
changed to NEW breaker points, new condensor, spark plug wires, new
rotor..Etc. We tried to start,, NO GO, I then unhooked the tach wire
(from coil,,negative, to tach position 3( i have disabled the anti
theft switch) It fired right up when the tach wire was removed from
the coil. But still running rough,,missing, and the way too hot
headers.. One peculiar item is when the key is turned to start, the
car wont fire, but as soon as you back off the key to normal running
position, it runs fine..My solenoid may not be releasing..I did have
to raise the idle screw a bit..
My guess is my Pertronix points were fine, I may have missed
something re wiring the dash harness.. Something is funny in the
wiring is my guess. Any ideas??
GOOD NEWS,, The fiberglass foot box is FINE, I looked inside
the footwell and noticed the bulge, curve, towards the headers is
factory correct so the steering column impact clamp will clear if
adjusted that high up the column. The fiberglass is intact and
strong. , Just a small burn on the interior jute insulation and a
few fibers burned on the outside footwell box. No distortion, no
repair needed, I will install NEW space age heat sheild matting
inside the footwell, and a Heat shield outside between the headers
and the footwell box. Looks like I have 5/8" of clearance now,,Yes,
I had the fire extinguisher ready, and started the car 5 feet from a
garden hose. Lots of smoke, but no real damage..Tim Moore 1970 Elan
DHC S4 SE..
- "mooremfg"
mooremfg wrote:
I bought some (expensive) heat shield material from a well known UK race
parts seller, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be adhesive
glass-fibre matting with ally kitchen foil stuck on one side!
When I had the engine out I got some paint-on stuff for the manifold
(header?) which aims to do the same job as Jetex, I had to bake it on
with a blow-lamp because our oven did not get hot enough (and my wife
was not impressed when she saw what I was doing!). I seems to work OK
but I imagine Jetex would be better, and more expensive of course.
btw, if your mixture is that lean, prepare to say good-bye to your
piston crowns if you run it for long.
Cheers,
Pete
I bought some (expensive) heat shield material from a well known UK race
parts seller, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be adhesive
glass-fibre matting with ally kitchen foil stuck on one side!
When I had the engine out I got some paint-on stuff for the manifold
(header?) which aims to do the same job as Jetex, I had to bake it on
with a blow-lamp because our oven did not get hot enough (and my wife
was not impressed when she saw what I was doing!). I seems to work OK
but I imagine Jetex would be better, and more expensive of course.
btw, if your mixture is that lean, prepare to say good-bye to your
piston crowns if you run it for long.
Cheers,
Pete
Cheers,
Pete.
http://www.petetaylor.org.uk
LOTUS ELAN flickr GROUP: https://www.flickr.com/groups/2515899@N20
flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/sets/72157624226380576/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/
Pete.
http://www.petetaylor.org.uk
LOTUS ELAN flickr GROUP: https://www.flickr.com/groups/2515899@N20
flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/sets/72157624226380576/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/
-
elansprint71 - Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 4437
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Recheck ignition timing. It might be significantly retarded.
Dave 72 Sprint DHC
----- Original Message -----
From: mooremfg
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:38 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] headers to hot, fiberglass footwell meltdown. UPDATE
" But still running rough,,missing, and the way too hot
headers....I did have to raise the idle screw a bit.. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***@***.***
Dave 72 Sprint DHC
----- Original Message -----
From: mooremfg
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:38 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] headers to hot, fiberglass footwell meltdown. UPDATE
" But still running rough,,missing, and the way too hot
headers....I did have to raise the idle screw a bit.. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***@***.***
- dlbarnes1
- Second Gear
- Posts: 139
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003
My bet is on the glass fiber and Ali mat for better insulation if put on the
item to be shielded and not on the manifold. Header coatings keep some heat
in the gas inside to keep velocity up, not to keep adjacent surfaces cool.
Ken
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR
_____
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Pete Taylor
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 3:49 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] headers to hot, fiberglass footwell meltdown.
UPDATE
mooremfg wrote:
I bought some (expensive) heat shield material from a well known UK race
parts seller, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be adhesive
glass-fibre matting with ally kitchen foil stuck on one side!
When I had the engine out I got some paint-on stuff for the manifold
(header?) which aims to do the same job as Jetex, I had to bake it on
with a blow-lamp because our oven did not get hot enough (and my wife
was not impressed when she saw what I was doing!). I seems to work OK
but I imagine Jetex would be better, and more expensive of course.
btw, if your mixture is that lean, prepare to say good-bye to your
piston crowns if you run it for long.
Cheers,
Pete
CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:
_____
item to be shielded and not on the manifold. Header coatings keep some heat
in the gas inside to keep velocity up, not to keep adjacent surfaces cool.
Ken
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR
_____
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Pete Taylor
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 3:49 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] headers to hot, fiberglass footwell meltdown.
UPDATE
mooremfg wrote:
I bought some (expensive) heat shield material from a well known UK race
parts seller, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be adhesive
glass-fibre matting with ally kitchen foil stuck on one side!
When I had the engine out I got some paint-on stuff for the manifold
(header?) which aims to do the same job as Jetex, I had to bake it on
with a blow-lamp because our oven did not get hot enough (and my wife
was not impressed when she saw what I was doing!). I seems to work OK
but I imagine Jetex would be better, and more expensive of course.
btw, if your mixture is that lean, prepare to say good-bye to your
piston crowns if you run it for long.
Cheers,
Pete
CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:
_____
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with Cosworth BDR
'84 Ferrari 400i
'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
'84 Ferrari 400i
'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
- lotuselan2
- Fourth Gear
- Posts: 556
- Joined: 19 Oct 2005
I use the glass fibre and aluminium heat hield mat stuck to the
footwell adjacent to the headers. The self adhesive stuff tends to
unstick over time as the adhesive is not really heat resistant ( silly
for a heat shield is it not !). I buy non adhesive heat shield and
stick it on with high temp silicone sealant, the read or copper
coloured stuff.
I also use exhaust wrapping tape on my headers but I only have about
3mm clearance to the footwell with the large bore headers I use so I
need all the help I can get.
Rohan
footwell adjacent to the headers. The self adhesive stuff tends to
unstick over time as the adhesive is not really heat resistant ( silly
for a heat shield is it not !). I buy non adhesive heat shield and
stick it on with high temp silicone sealant, the read or copper
coloured stuff.
I also use exhaust wrapping tape on my headers but I only have about
3mm clearance to the footwell with the large bore headers I use so I
need all the help I can get.
Rohan
In God I trust.... All others please bring data
-
rgh0 - Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 8829
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003
10 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Total Online:
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests