heat damage tolerable on GRP?

[Stagmatt]

Hello all,
I have still not given up the idea of finding a worthwhile Elan +2. Now one has crossed my path which looks very interesting. The snag is: according to the dealer it has seen heat exposure during a nearby fire in the garage (no details given). There is damage to the bonnet and to some minor spots near the edges of the panels. The damage consists in the resprayed top layer (blue) flaking off and exposing the original paint underneath. My guess is that it IS the original paint as the spec plate says the paint code is LO17 and that should be Renault mid green, which seems to match.

I have actually not seen any other effects of that fire on te car than that on the paint which makes me a little hesitant accepting the dealer´s story.

My question: must I expect loss of strength of the resin? Can it be repaired after stripping without fear of a big mis-investment? Anyone had first-hand experience with effect of heat on GRP?

When searching for paint-stripping methods I found that some folk have done it with a heat-gun. It was claimed that no harm was done when applied with care. Of course there is a difference in exposure time when the whole car is roasted or just a spot heated gently.

Thank you for your advice -
Matthias

PS I find it difficult to upload pics here so if you do not see two different photos, pls let me know.

[gherlt]

Hello Matthias,
sorry to ask, but I might not completely understand the damage.
Is the damage only on the bonnet ? (Which would be very strange if the heat came from nearby ...)
The bonnet is not a stressed part, so in case of being weak, I would not bother. In worst case, buy a new bonnet.

Or are other surfaces/parts damaged ? Just below front window ?
Regards
Guillermo

[Stagmatt]

Hi Guillermo,
thanks for asking! I must add I have not seen the car in the flesh, errh, in the grp, but the seller provided good resolution photos from most angles. What you see on the bonnet is the worst. I have not seen the bonnet underside, but from what I can glimpse from photos of the engine bay, there is no damage visible. There are several other spots (similar to the other photo) and most look like the edge of the blue paint has broken open by 1-3mm, over lengths of 20 to 150mm, exposing the green paint. Otherwise the car looks clean, no sign of soot or similar.

As I wrote, I am not sure if the alleged fire is the true cause. I think it might also be a case of a bad respray now coming to the end of its life and just loosing bond to the old surface. Which would be harmless. But then why blame a fire?

Greetings to Weiden!

Matthias

[JonB]

Looks fine to me. I think you’re right about a poor respray coming loose. Budget for a strip to gelcoat and a respray, say, £5-8K.

You need to look at the rest of it, too.

How much is the dealer asking? If over £10k I’d be looking elsewhere.

[alanr]

I would seriously question the end product quality aspect of trying to get a good long lasting respray on +2 for £5k-£8K in the UK in 2023 on any fibreglass car.
My thoughts are that it would be little more than a shiny short term blow-over at that price unless you can find someone who is maybe retired, knows what they are doing with a fibreglass car, also has an oven, and additionally is prepared to work for peanuts!
Unfortunately labour costs have now gone up dramatically and nowadays you will need to budget more like £10k-£12k for a proper job and if you go to a company like Option1 who are considered one of the best in the business for dealing with fibreglass you can expect to pay around £14k for a proper gel coat re-tissue job.

Alan.

[gherlt]

The gentlemen is in Germany, not cheap, but I think he could get a decent job for less than in the UK.
The two resprays I had on my car (S3) came always cheaper than in the UK, and both have lasted for a very long time. In the last 18 months I had my S1 body fully restored and painted and it came to about 8/9.000€ (no prep work from my side). The paint shop being a known Corvette (the GRP ones) specialist.

[JonB]

Yes, Option 1 are expensive and have a commensurate reputation. They are not the only choice.

My S4 "back to gellcoat" respray was estimated at £3.5k and I have seen the chap's work - a replica Ferrari Dino with a full fibreglass shell in metallic silver, the paint being 2 years old and not a single flaw to be seen. My shell's respray is still in progress but I've alredy been back to inspect the body, post-stripping. It's in good shape for a 52 year old car with only a few gel cracks. It's coming back any time now and I will be posting pictures when it does.

Anyway, that's why I suggested the price range that I did. Full disclosure - my car had the original factory paint plus one cheap blow over to remove and this will have reduced the quoted estimate somewhat.

YMMV, obviously.

[Stagmatt]

Gentlemen,
thanks all for your opinions on a respray. We are talking about a car I do not even own (yet). Depending on the overall condition of my object of desire I would do some driving and use first, then worry about looks. I am a notorious self-maker, so my approach would be to research ways to get the paint off gently, then do the prepping in accordance with the shop of choice.

STILL, my original question remains un-answered: worth the trouble, risks?
I hope to see the car in the course of the next few days, and I will let this thread know.

Guillermo, as your experience with that paint shop seemed to be positive, I may ask you for the contact, although Weiden is a fairly long way from Stuttgart. But first-hand recommendations I find very valuable.

Matthias

[berni29]

Hi

Got to touch it, feel it and see if you like it first!

Best of luck!

Berni

[mbell]

STILL, my original question remains un-answered: worth the trouble, risks?

No one here really has the info to give a concrete answer, especially as risk is a personal judgement.

To give a meaningful answer, we'd need the same information that is stopping you having an accurate opinion.

My guess is that if it's just the paint then it probably didn't get that hot and likely fiberglass below is mostly ok. The only way to tell is to go and look at there car and carefully assess what the fiber glass looks like.

The fact you haven't bought it or gone to see I would read as that is too much risk for you. Cars like this you either need to see or be so cheap you know you'll be ok.

[Ianashdown]

I would say if the damage is localized then I would feel OK to take a chance. It’s relatively easily repairable and the the end result can be as strong as the original. It is a bit of a process though. If the damaged are is large, consider grafting in a new panel. Not trivial, but not awful either.

Ian

[elanfan1]

The trouble here is that you are dealing with unknown unknowns. You have no idea of how much toxin impregnated smoke was left sat on the paintwork before it cleaned off and how well it was cleaned off. Some parts may have many weeks worth of toxin impregnated. Some may be so deep it’s nigh on impossible to remove it without professional assistance (and even they may refuse and write the car off. Many modern cars are written off from engine bay bay fires with apparently little damage because a lungful of the smoke could have killed and they will not take the risk. Please remember some of the said toxins and smoke can be extremely hazardous to your health.

The likelihood is your surfaces are acceptable but there is small chance of problematic contamination. Job has left the building!

[gherlt]

Hello Matthias,
I suppose that it really comes down to you going there to look and touch the "burnt" areas.

Regarding the toxins, considering the cabin is not air tight (modern cars are) any toxin will get out fast and freely. If toxins are considered, then I wouldn't buy a car of the 60s, the emissions of our cars are toxic, sufficiently to commit suicide.

Also, I wouldn't go that far as dismiss the car, there have been plenty of burnt engine bays and the cars have been rebuilt with no problems. A way to get more information about restoring burnt cars, ask owners whose engine bay burnt and rebuilt the car. Or ask Option 1 or Spydercars or UK specialist, they could tell you about the restoration of a "burnt" GRP. On those reponses you can asses what has to be done and then add the car's price to a final sum (which won't be enough) and then you need to decide if that is worth it.
You say you will do prep work and therefor pay less, but you should take it into account that you are not paid, but your time is not free. Body prep work are many hours, and it isn't joyful.
Just consider that this is only the body, the rest of the car can have surprises.
I am not sure what you are looking for, but if you would consider a fully restored car, I know (only) one car I could recommend.

Regarding the paintshop, he is not in Weiden, he is between Magdeburg and Leipzip. I will send you details by PM.

[elanfan1]

Please understand that toxin can be inhaled BUT can also be absorbed through the skin.

If there are products of the fire in the GRP will there always be potential to affect the paint.

[Stagmatt]

Thanks for all your considerate replies. I have to put this on hold now. My mother is not well and I must be off to look after her. Possibly the car is gone then, but that´s life. Not high on the list now.

Stay healthy, Matthias