Plus 2 or Plus 2S

[Elanintheforest]

I'm only quoting from Ross and Robinshaw, who did their research from the factory archives when they were more complete than they are now.

They refer to the Federal BODYSHELL, not Federal cars.So the Domestic Plus 2 adopted the Federal shell in Sep '68, but they didn't adopt any of the other Federal bits into the Domestic car. As you say, it was a rationalisation to one moulding / one set of door and boot furnature
Mark

[Grizzly]

Yes but Robinshaw was the guy who told me my S4 Sprint was a late 80's copy of a Sprint so he's not infallible either (It was taken off the road in 83 and had one owner from new)

go and look at a Morgan and ask the same question
Regards phil

This is my point, Lotus where quite good at Uniformity if you take the Retrofitted cars out of the equation, so when a quite different car comes off the production line it usually has a different variant name +2 became the +2s tht became the +2s 130 and so on, so for a +2 thats was half way between a +2 and an +2S to come off the production line must mean a different Model variant? But seems not. BTW Morgans where built more or less to a picture on a wall


But it's progress, at least we can now agree if you bought a +2 in 67 (for arguments sake) it would be Different to the same model variant bought in late 68 on (in the UK)

[KevJ+2]

Maybe it was a Plus 2 1/2 thing to leave out the rear interior lights and fit only one sun visor...no..no...only kidding
The letters on the boot/trunk lid also seem closer, oh and the engine bay is red - anorak moment

[Grizzly]

Maybe it was a Plus 2 1/2 thing to leave out the rear interior lights and fit only one sun visor...no..no...only kidding
The letters on the boot/trunk lid also seem closer, oh and the engine bay is red - anorak moment

Well would +2 V2.0 be more fitting No one has a name for the post 68 non S cars after the modifications to the Body mould and all the associated bits where changed (in the Uk)....... so how about +2J ? Thats half way between a +2 and +2s



I think Lotus calling the post 68 +2 a federal body doesn't help as when i think Federal +2 i see the car Andy describes as the E/E with LHD and the bits needed to pass US Federal rules. Just to make it worse they actually converted some proper LHD Federal +2 cars meant to be shipped to the U.S. back to RHD just to make it more confusing.... So when some one says they have a Federal 69 car (you don't know if it's a Factory retrofitted car LHD, a early 68 that has sat for some time and has the early +2 spec or a Uk car with the "Federal" body with all the different bits added.

[KevJ+2]

I think Lotus calling the post 68 +2 a federal body doesn't help as when i think Federal +2 i see the car Andy describes as the E/E with LHD and the bits needed to pass US Federal rules. Just to make it worse they actually converted some proper LHD Federal +2 cars ment to be shipped to the U.S. back to RHD just to make it more confusing when some one says they have a Federal 69 car (you don't know if it's a Factory retrofitted car LHD, a early 68 that has sat for some time and has the early +2 spec or a Uk car with the "Federal" body.

I wonder if that's why there is a blanking plate used where there would have been a LHD pedal box. Maybe a federal body until given a destination?

[Grizzly]

I think Lotus calling the post 68 +2 a federal body doesn't help as when i think Federal +2 i see the car Andy describes as the E/E with LHD and the bits needed to pass US Federal rules. Just to make it worse they actually converted some proper LHD Federal +2 cars ment to be shipped to the U.S. back to RHD just to make it more confusing when some one says they have a Federal 69 car (you don't know if it's a Factory retrofitted car LHD, a early 68 that has sat for some time and has the early +2 spec or a Uk car with the "Federal" body.

I wonder if that's why there is a blanking plate used where there would have been a LHD pedal box. Maybe a federal body until given a destination?

I looked at two proper factory LHD converted 69 +2 cars and you could see where they had filled in the Peddle box hole, it also had Plugs on the dash loom where they had cut it to fit the RHD dash. It's been a while but i don't remember the 69- Uk cars having that...... the OP red 69 doesn't appear to either (but it's been rebuilt so anything is possible).

When i went to see this car http://www.handh.co.uk/buy/1969-lotus-elan-2/13027 i should have taken lots of pictures....... Take a guess which car i was more interested in.

[gus]

>>>>So the only anomaly seems to be that this car, built in October '69, passed to sales a few months later, was well inside the 'S' model having been announced in Mar '69. But it's specification looks good for an original non-S built between Sep '68 and Mar '69<<<

Fer cryin out loud, the introduction of the +2 S was NOT the end of non S +2 production, which went on until 12/69
I don't believe there are any new VIN non S +2's

There is no anomoly

[AdrianSi]

I think Lotus calling the post 68 +2 a federal body doesn't help as when i think Federal +2 i see the car Andy describes as the E/E with LHD and the bits needed to pass US Federal rules. Just to make it worse they actually converted some proper LHD Federal +2 cars ment to be shipped to the U.S. back to RHD just to make it more confusing when some one says they have a Federal 69 car (you don't know if it's a Factory retrofitted car LHD, a early 68 that has sat for some time and has the early +2 spec or a Uk car with the "Federal" body.

I wonder if that's why there is a blanking plate used where there would have been a LHD pedal box. Maybe a federal body until given a destination?

I looked at two proper factory LHD converted 69 +2 cars and you could see where they had filled in the Peddle box hole, it also had Plugs on the dash loom where they had cut it to fit the RHD dash. It's been a while but i don't remember the 69- Uk cars having that...... the OP red 69 doesn't appear to either (but it's been rebuilt so anything is possible).

On my car, you can see all the LHD features in the Bulkhead, old glassing of the LHD pedal box from underneath. My VIN plate is also attached to the RH side which seems to be a feature of some of the US vehicles due to tandem servo fitments.

The filler neck has the hole for the closed loop emissions system (wish it was still fitted for fuel vapour!). My sunroof has also been filled, unsure if this was done at the factory or not as the options details are unavailable.

Mine feels like a car that had sat around (as a cancelled US order), been robbed of some parts (probably to keep production flowing) and then built up and believed to have been sent to the dealer some 9 months later as a kit vehicle.

You can see the number of +2 and +2S's being stored in this cracking video for 1970:
(I'm sure mine will have been one of the +2 Bahama Yellow cars lined up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0y7Gx98kQw

Can also make out F21567 engine being installed to body number 2519 maybe?

[Grizzly]

Does your have the high back seats too? (Not the best picture as i think it's an S)

And is this the closed loop emissions system you mean, looks like an early attempt at a EGR valve.
(This is a 2 seater but same sort of set up)

BTW that Pathe movie is really good, that looks allot of masking for the final paint. Ironically there is a Uk +2 (unpainted red) parked next to a Federal (Unpainted Blue...spot the upsprung headlights) even a UK +2 with screw in Spot/Fogs

[AdrianSi]

Yes full high back front seats:

By emissions, I mean the charcoal and swirl/vapour chanister along side the rear of the fuel tank. It meant that the vapour was recirculated. The pipes over the cam cover don't actually link to the exhaust gases, just pass through a chamber in the cast exhaust manifold. Warms the engine up a little quicker and helped with carb icing on the strombergs.

Mine has a Webber head on the original Federal Stromberg bottom end. Not know if factory fitted, but have discovered it has non SE cams and jetted to suit non SE spec. (All +2's were SE or above). So it's a baby Elan head most likely.

[Grizzly]

So it's a baby Elan head most likely.

careful you will have the 2 seater police after you



I didn't follow the emission pipe back i just assumed it was some form of EGR (you live and learn)

[Orsom Weels]

Well would +2 V2.0 be more fitting No one has a name for the post 68 non S cars after the modifications to the Body mould and all the associated bits where changed (in the Uk)....... so how about +2J ? Thats half way between a +2 and +2s

When Ford made subtle interim changes to a model they were usually referred to as the "Facelift" model. As there's more than a hint of Ford DNA in these cars, how about that for the sake of argument?

[Elanintheforest]

>>>>So the only anomaly seems to be that this car, built in October '69, passed to sales a few months later, was well inside the 'S' model having been announced in Mar '69. But it's specification looks good for an original non-S built between Sep '68 and Mar '69<<<

Fer cryin out loud, the introduction of the +2 S was NOT the end of non S +2 production, which went on until 12/69
I don't believe there are any new VIN non S +2's

There is no anomoly

Well Gus you're going to have to cry out just a little bit louder. Where do you get the information from about there being two models of domestic +2 Elans being made between March '69 and December '69? I think I have all the brochures, pricelists and write-ups from the time, and can only find one model for sale at a time. Just look at the price list put up above by Grizzly from Sep '69. Only the 'S' is mentioned; there is no reduced price 'non-S' available. I'm always keen to learn, and have learned to keep an open mind about Lotus Cars!

I've never seen the 'S' being marketed as an upgrade or optional extra either, which surely it must have been if offered at the same time. I'm looking forward to seeing the brochure price list or write-up with both cars being described. I'm always keen to learn!

Mark

[Grizzly]

Well would +2 V2.0 be more fitting No one has a name for the post 68 non S cars after the modifications to the Body mould and all the associated bits where changed (in the Uk)....... so how about +2J ? Thats half way between a +2 and +2s

When Ford made subtle interim changes to a model they were usually referred to as the "Facelift" model. As there's more than a hint of Ford DNA in these cars, how about that for the sake of argument?

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek because i called it a +2 1/2, frankly it can be called what ever you fancy just as long as it's acknowledged the late +2 was changed (as Mark says Federal body specification) just wish the factory had called it Face-lift or some thing other than Federal spec bodies, so confusing when the Federal cars where built to be LHD and conform to Federal laws/Rules and just to add insult to injury 50 of those where converted to RHD......

[Grizzly]

Can anyone confirm this was actually 1970? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0y7Gx98kQw

The reason i ask is where are the S's? if the S was being sold from 69 and thats 70? i know it's hard to tell the spec, but every +2 appears to be a +2 (may be wrong but i thought only the +2 had the screw in spotlight/fog option like the red +2 @ 1.01) and the blue +2 next to it is obviously a Federal LHD +2 (no spot/fog lights)........ So if thats the case that can't be 1970?? Can it??

If the White +2 UVF900H is brand new it must be 69? would they show case a twelve month old car?? that said the red Europa looks like a G reg?