Plus 2 or Plus 2S
The factory recorded cars that were converted from Federal to UK spec. Our friendly archivist can normally confirm this when obtaining a cert of provenance. Mine still has the remote door pull on the LHS.
The shell swap over to remote boots seems to be a fair bit earlier than '69. The recessed fog lamps seem to be a later addition. Pre 'S' fog lamps were the cut out and screw in lamp panels. Later they were part of the body shell.
The shell swap over to remote boots seems to be a fair bit earlier than '69. The recessed fog lamps seem to be a later addition. Pre 'S' fog lamps were the cut out and screw in lamp panels. Later they were part of the body shell.
1970 Elan +2
Factory Federal RHD
B42 Midnight Blue (Esprit S4)
Factory Federal RHD
B42 Midnight Blue (Esprit S4)
- AdrianSi
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I don't think the one for sale above would have been a LHD/Federal car, i've seen a couple of those cars converted at the factory and they have all had Upsprung headlights, Seats with built in head rests, Hex centre locks not eared spinners and things like the Emission pipe going over the Cam cover.
This is one such car
http://www.handh.co.uk/buy/1969-lotus-elan-2/13027
The later +2 seem to be bitsa cars (no two seem to be the same) and they don't fall into +2, +2s or +2s130 they are more a +2 1/2, having seen a few of them my guess is it was Lotus depleting their parts stock.
This is one such car
http://www.handh.co.uk/buy/1969-lotus-elan-2/13027
The later +2 seem to be bitsa cars (no two seem to be the same) and they don't fall into +2, +2s or +2s130 they are more a +2 1/2, having seen a few of them my guess is it was Lotus depleting their parts stock.
Chris
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Grizzly - Coveted Fifth Gear
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That one is very similar to mine, minus the Alloy wheels. Chassis number and engine number within a few numbers.
Mine is on steels with eared spinners. The list of options fitted to the cars seems to have been one of the lost items of the flood in '70, well at least for my car it is, so no idea what it actually left the factory with or without.
(Aware of the missing chrome work and painted silver bumpers. Currently replacing the bumpers with far lighter fibreglass items)
Mine is on steels with eared spinners. The list of options fitted to the cars seems to have been one of the lost items of the flood in '70, well at least for my car it is, so no idea what it actually left the factory with or without.
(Aware of the missing chrome work and painted silver bumpers. Currently replacing the bumpers with far lighter fibreglass items)
1970 Elan +2
Factory Federal RHD
B42 Midnight Blue (Esprit S4)
Factory Federal RHD
B42 Midnight Blue (Esprit S4)
- AdrianSi
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Hi Dibbo, for what it's worth, I bought a 1970 +2 CGU518H in about 1976 from a lotus dealer, it was very similar to the one listed, only it had a signature steering wheel, stromberg head and chrome inserts(removable) on the steel wheels which were black it was sold to me as a special equipment s/e entry level trim, if you can look in the 1974 edition of the workshop manual under electrical system it shows the various dash layouts and it lists the one on the car you're interested in as special equipment, I think everyone is correct in that the factory were using up old stock
Good luck
Phil
Good luck
Phil
- p.faurie
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Damn people this is not complex
S cars all have padded console, and two extra gauges
last non S was circa 12/69 as 2400 is listed as last non S plus 2
When the Federal cars came out, they all switched to rocker switches, which should have been before the S came out so I don't believe there are any toggle switch S cars
Non S dashes are hard to find, so some non S cars have extra gauges, since the dash has been replaced
In looking at the cars over 30 years I have seen very little unexplained randomness
S cars all have padded console, and two extra gauges
last non S was circa 12/69 as 2400 is listed as last non S plus 2
When the Federal cars came out, they all switched to rocker switches, which should have been before the S came out so I don't believe there are any toggle switch S cars
Non S dashes are hard to find, so some non S cars have extra gauges, since the dash has been replaced
In looking at the cars over 30 years I have seen very little unexplained randomness
- gus
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Lotus at the time just loved to take the model that was making way and retrofit the unsold cars to the newer spec, many of those cars are not very consistent (i should know i own two of them ) also the beginning and end of production runs get a bit inconstant too.
Last edited by Grizzly on Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
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Grizzly - Coveted Fifth Gear
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And this is a Plus2S/130 5 speed advertised just as a Plus2...... http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C780146 .............no wonder the innocent get confused. Looks a nice car though
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The other thing to consider in all this is that the 'S' & subsequent variants were never released as kits, Chapman wanted to get away from the kit car image & move more 'up-market'. If you wanted one in kit form, you got a basic plus 2, which perhaps meant that the basic model continued longer than Lotus intended, as there was still a small demand for the kits & it would have been a good way of using up or getting rid of the 'old stock'. Information I have from John Bolsters Collectors guide book suggests around 853 cars & 9-10 months between the introduction of the 'S' & the end of the basic +2, (March 69, 'S' model introduced at chassis number 50/1554. Last basic +2, December 69, chassis number 50/2407) As mentioned, this would inevitably have lead to later designs/parts having to be incorporated as the older stuff dried up. Add to this a few unsold examples receiving factory updates/re-fresh etc & it's easy to see where some anomalies can creep in
- Orsom Weels
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>>>So the car the original poster is inquiring about is one of the Elans Lotus used bits of both +2 and +2s most likely the bits Lotus couldn't get hold of as the parts bin Lotus got them from had dried up, kinda of a +2 and a half. It doesn't fall into the +2 or the S<<
No, it is a very standard non federal, non S, plus two. Rather late for the chrome window switches, and perhaps the steering wheel is later, but I see no S details whatsoever. I see no bitsa business at all.
No, it is a very standard non federal, non S, plus two. Rather late for the chrome window switches, and perhaps the steering wheel is later, but I see no S details whatsoever. I see no bitsa business at all.
- gus
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It's a UK +2 non 'S' car, which has all the correct features for that era of car, dash, door locks etc. Cars of that era seem to have taken up to 1 year to get to the dealers from the build date.
My 50/2416 is one of the last +2 non 'S' models and is the same as this car. Andy, the archivist, confirms that mine was not built as an 'S' and was just a +2.
So have we managed to confirm the Vin of the one in question by the OP?
My 50/2416 is one of the last +2 non 'S' models and is the same as this car. Andy, the archivist, confirms that mine was not built as an 'S' and was just a +2.
So have we managed to confirm the Vin of the one in question by the OP?
1970 Elan +2
Factory Federal RHD
B42 Midnight Blue (Esprit S4)
Factory Federal RHD
B42 Midnight Blue (Esprit S4)
- AdrianSi
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Just to confirm, the standard +2 and +2'S' were built alongside each other until unit number 2407 which is recorded as the last standard +2. For interest 50/2400 was a +2'S' so misquoted above as the last standard +2.
- LotusArchives
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LotusArchives wrote:Just to confirm, the standard +2 and +2'S' were built alongside each other until unit number 2407 which is recorded as the last standard +2. For interest 50/2400 was a +2'S' so misquoted above as the last standard +2.
Well the fact there is a 1970 +2 would back that up, but was it using old stock or ran as a second model built in parallel? the 1969 price list would tend to imply it was using up old stock as there is no Non S option.
For me a +2 (non S) had external boot catch and S3 type door handles etc, the model changed when the S came out to replace some of the harder to get parts? Is this not true? I thought no new +2 bodies (without spot light holes) where made after the S started production.
1969 price list.......
Last edited by Grizzly on Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Chris
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Grizzly - Coveted Fifth Gear
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gus wrote:No, it is a very standard non federal, non S, plus two. Rather late for the chrome window switches, and perhaps the steering wheel is later, but I see no S details whatsoever. I see no bitsa business at all.
Yes you keep saying that but have you ever had a pre 1968 car next to a 1970 non S (there are differences, they are not identical as you sugest)
Chris
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Grizzly - Coveted Fifth Gear
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The red +2 that started this all is a 1969 car, although as stated in the sale list, while production of the car started in 1969, it was not completed/passed to sales until 1970. Reason for delay unknown.
In 1969 there were 3 models being manufactured that I am aware of;
S/E (noted as special equipment in the build file - standard version),
E/E (emission equipment model for the US),
S ('S' upmaket factory built version with plusher trim).
As with all manufacturers, the +2 along with other Lotus models had running changes which is why a early car will have some differences to a later car.
Also remember the +2 was sold worldwide, so just because it does not appear on a UK price list does not mean it didn't exist, and as we know sometimes unsold stock got reworked and sold to the domestic market like the 50+ Federal unsold +2 E/E cars that were reworked and sold in the UK. The white car sale that was linked above is one of those.
In 1969 there were 3 models being manufactured that I am aware of;
S/E (noted as special equipment in the build file - standard version),
E/E (emission equipment model for the US),
S ('S' upmaket factory built version with plusher trim).
As with all manufacturers, the +2 along with other Lotus models had running changes which is why a early car will have some differences to a later car.
Also remember the +2 was sold worldwide, so just because it does not appear on a UK price list does not mean it didn't exist, and as we know sometimes unsold stock got reworked and sold to the domestic market like the 50+ Federal unsold +2 E/E cars that were reworked and sold in the UK. The white car sale that was linked above is one of those.
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