Lotus Elan

makes me want to fit plumbed fire supression

PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:28 am

Sorry to see the PLus 2 gone almost completely. I realise how lucky I was with mine
Looks like the rear bumper survived - a bit of value in that :D

cheers
Rohan
Last edited by rgh0 on Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:22 am

Bill

Look on the bright side,at least you didn't have to do the ironing...

John :wink:
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:09 am

Although it obviously should be a concern, personally I've decided to ignore the risk.

When I (finally) get a car I shall probably wire in the spots to be permanent running light. It might help but I doubt it. I had too many years on bikes to expect that.

The roads, and tiny lanes, of Bucks are already cluttered with wrinklies in ginormous Mercs and 2 ton SUVs.
As they have no idea of the width of their panzers, most crawl along at about 20mph, and stop at the first sight of an approaching vehicle. They already have reverse camera, self parking systems, auto braking and other tricks.
Who will be the first to add proximity radar alarm?

I don't know why they bother, most aren't long for this world anyway.
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PostPost by: SimonH » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:23 am

vincereynard wrote:The roads, and tiny lanes, of Bucks are already cluttered with wrinklies in ginormous Mercs and 2 ton SUVs.
As they have no idea of the width of their panzers, most crawl along at about 20mph, and stop at the first sight of an approaching vehicle. They already have reverse camera, self parking systems, auto braking and other tricks.


It's the same here. But it doesn't matter how many gizmos they have they will still stop just past a passing place and expect you to back up 300 yards as they can't reverse!
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PostPost by: bill griffiths » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:32 am

Fairly much everything melted except a few bits of steel!
I think the exhaust manifold might be ok!
I found a replacement about a thousand miles away which was partly rebuilt, and I have been
putting it together now for a bit over a year.
The distribution of any details or experience with plumbed fire suppression in GRP cars would be
most worthwhile.
I would not like a repeat with the replacement, which is turning into a very nice car!
Regards,
Bill
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:24 am

Bill

With a car like that to work on,who'd want to do the ironing anyway...

John :wink:
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PostPost by: Wickey » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:58 pm

Shame you could not have salvaged the Webber head............not a big fan of Strombergs but I admire your spirit to take on another 8)
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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:06 am

elanfan1 wrote:Your car so do as you wish. The manufacturers of that system are so confident about it that they just refer to fire extinguishing agent. They don't even state what it is!! 1kg is generally not enough to put out a lighted fart -it might last for 12-15 seconds if you are lucky, there's no saying that where the pipe melts first is where the main fire seat is situated. If the beginning of the pipe melts first then all the extinguishent is released there and none gets to the end. IMHO a lot of money for a piece of crap - sorry. (In a previous life I was occasionally involved in specifying fixed extinguishing systems and gas flooding etc to protect processes involving highly flammable liquids and gases for multi million pound machinery, stock and buildings- if that's anything to go by).

If I recall correctly Rohan has installed fixed extinguishers in his race car (and didn't it save his car/life once?). I'm sure he'd elaborate on his set up. Save your money towards a properly engineered system.


The MSA (Motor Sports Association) have requirements for plumbed-in extinguishing systems on circuit racing cars. Both the engine compartment and the cockpit have to be covered by nozzles, with a certain percentage being discharged over the engine, and a certain percentage in the cockpit. It has been a while since I installed mine, but I recall the amount of extinguisher fluid (foam in my case) was 4 litres - so approx. 4Kg. It is a big bottle, but I guess the MSA know what they are talking about.
When I queried the size of the extinguisher, I was told by the supplier that it was designed to put out a fire if the driver was incapacitated - which I guess is fair enough for a circuit car. Demon Tweeks in the UK sell a range of mechanically and electrically triggered plumbed in systems and the MSA publish their guidelines on the web.
From pictures I have seen, a number of Elan fires start as under-dash wiring fires, which given the dreadful electrical design of the Elan is no surprise. Having a nozzle or two in the cockpit and under the dash looks to be good insurance.
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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:41 am

Just be aware that there are foams and foams - this is an excerpt from the wiki link below (if you want to read the full article):

"The most flexibility is achieved by AR-AFFF or AR-FFFP. AR-AFFF must be used in areas where gasolines are blended with oxygenates, since the alcohols prevent the formation of the film between the FFFP foam and the gasoline, breaking down the foam, rendering the FFFP foam virtually useless."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighting_foam

Short version - avoid FFFP foams
Steve

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PostPost by: jaitch » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:00 pm

Any FIA/MSA approved plumbed in system will have been tested to the relevant FIA spec, homologated and approved by MSA and witness tested and verified by BSI (British Standards Institution). I used to do such testing for BSI which involved various hot engine fire tests, a cockpit fire test and other tests such as does it work in any orientation. Off the top of my head (it was few years ago) there are a few manufacturer's - Lifeline, FEV, OMP, SPA. There were also some real cowboys who never made it market thankfully!

AFFF is the main suppression agent although some now use Novec 1230 (TM) and FE36 - which are so called clean agents. Personally I would go for a foam system due to its inherent effective fire suppression ability, its lasting blanketing effect on unburnt fuel and its personal cooling effect. However each have their merits and clean agents can be very effective in enclosed environments as they behave more like an inert gas.

James
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