Lotus Elan

Why is the Plus 2 so undervalued?

PostPost by: jono » Thu May 10, 2012 9:13 am

I am genuinely not interested in seeing Plus 2 values go silly but it still perplexes me why they still appear to be so undervalued in comparsion to other classic cars.

Why is this? To my own mind at least, the Plus 2 has the following attractions in abundance:

Beautiful/elegant looks
Superb handling
'Exotic' image
Good performance by the standards of it's day
Practicality/easy to live with
Rarity (increasingly)
Eminently useable - a 'mini GT'

..what's not to like :?

I know this has been 'done' on previous occassions but I think it's time to give it another 'airing'

Discuss

Jon
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Thu May 10, 2012 9:42 am

jono wrote:..what's not to like :?

I know this has been 'done' on previous occassions but I think it's time to give it another 'airing' Discuss Jon


Beats me Jon :?

I have said elsewhere...if I were in the market for an Elan it would be a +2.

I have been searching for the reference where Ron Hickman assessed design trade-offs.

IIRC, performance was a given, but he considered the Elite as 60% beauty / 40% practicality, the Elan as 60% practicality / 40% beauty.

On that basis a +2 must be 60% beauty AND 60% practicality !

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PostPost by: cal44 » Thu May 10, 2012 1:48 pm

How can a Ferrari with aluminum body sell for $10 million large................I don't get that.

Coming back to reality, it boils down too the fun factor. I have more fun driving the Plus 2 than any collector car I have owned......and that is a bunch. Stunning in looks, very comfortable and goes like stink if built right and did I mention room to put stuff.

If others don't get it.........good........."let them eat cake". Don't get me wrong, I like the Elan but the Plus toooo is just so damn good looking, inside and out, and a pleasure to drive. Fun and pleasure?........sounds like a romp...........

The P2 will catch on, look at the prices of TC Europas as they creep up. If the prices don't.........then the faithful will always think the prices should have.

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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Thu May 10, 2012 4:41 pm

Beats me too. Perhaps we're the ones who are a bit weird!

So little interest in my yellow early project car (painted to perfection) I'm probably going to break it for parts. The shell will either be an ornament or scrapped....or turned into a sheep playground!

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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Thu May 10, 2012 5:43 pm

Yes, and why is the horrible Europa worth so much in comparison to the Plus 2?
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PostPost by: cal44 » Thu May 10, 2012 6:53 pm

I agree........why are the Europa's valued more?..........another mystery indeed.

To bad Mark doesn't live in my town......I'd be on that P2 like ticks on a mule.............

Mike
Last edited by cal44 on Thu May 10, 2012 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu May 10, 2012 6:55 pm

Elanintheforest wrote:Beats me too. Perhaps we're the ones who are a bit weird!

So little interest in my yellow early project car (painted to perfection) I'm probably going to break it for parts. The shell will either be an ornament or scrapped....or turned into a sheep playground!

Mark


Mark,
That's a shame, it deserves to be ressurected. Point me towards your advert if you don't mind or perhaps email or pm me, I may have an idea of interested parties.

Regards

Alan
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu May 10, 2012 7:21 pm

The +2 and the S4 are both living at my Tunbridge Wells house at the moment. On the odd non rainy days recently they have both been parked on the driveway and as we get a lot of visitors (business & personal) there are often comments about the cars.

If the subject of value comes up, no one appears to be shocked that the S4 is valued at ?45,000 and the +2 at ?23,000. This isn't because the S4 is fresh out of the box, because unless you look very closely the +2 also looks like a new toy.

The visitors are non Lotus enthusiasts and don't realise my cars are not standard, therefore they are judging them as classic cars and universally everyone prefers the S4 over the +2 from a bystanders point of view.

Perhaps the values are due to Elan's reaching genuine classic status whilst the +2's are still just nice old Lotus cars to a lot of people. Back in the 1980's Matty's advertised restored Elans and +2's, but generally the +2's were valued higher than the Elan's, how odd is that?
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PostPost by: 1964 S1 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:20 am

Hi Jon, another airing and we're all still mystified, myself included. I own an S1 and a '69 +2, both a blast to drive, one worth about three times the other? The +2 continues, year after year, decade after decade to remain underneath the collector car radar screen. They are improving in price, (how could they go much lower?) as proved by the non runner needing a chassis bringing just under $7000 on ebay last week.
I dunno.
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PostPost by: jono » Fri May 11, 2012 7:04 am

Interesting comments chaps and it seems we are all equally puzzled.

What really interests me though is the reason why, and I am not interested, nor was I wishing to make a comparison with the price differential between the Plus 2 and Elan. I am more interested in why the Plus 2, as a classic car in it's own right, has not garnered the attention that other models in the classic arena have.

For example only I have noticed that the Alfa Guilia Coupe has in recent years shot up in value and now attracts fairly serious money for a good car. It is a lovely machine but technically and dynamically inferior to the Plus 2 on almost every level and with no particular competition pedigree (as with the Plus 2).

I do wonder whether the Plus 2 is simply 'off the radar' as someone has put it - too few around to be noticed or do they still suffer from years of being neglected due to the (relatively) high cost or frequency of maintenance - a case of 'give a dog a bad name'? Certainly many seem to have been laid up for years because folks could not be bothered to make then go again after failed chassis/water pumps. rotflex etc. Or, could it be the fibreglass body?

Might they be more recognised if they had been given a different name? I recall as a boy being confused/puzzled by 2 cars, so different on the outside, sharing the same name. Perhaps the 'Metier' name should have stuck?

Genuinely puzzled :?

Jon
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri May 11, 2012 7:17 am

Hi Jono,
I think there are a whole bunch of Lotus enthusiasts out there who are puzzled by Excel, Eclat, Elite T75, T83 and Elan M100 values as well, 2 of those cars had their own unique name, so I don't think it's that reason exactly.

I haven't driven any of the cars mentioned above apart from the M100 Elan, and I must say that it's a very good car and seriously seriously undervalued. If it wasn't for garage space and an Elise S1 taking priority as my next Lotus I would buy one tomorrow.... hey I'd buy 2 or 3 they are that cheap :wink:

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Alan
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PostPost by: barefoot » Fri May 11, 2012 7:57 am

It always amazed me but even worse at the moment is the Excel I have just bought a 91 Celebration for ?4500 the Excel has to be the bargain of all Lotus models it is another 4 seater and just like 4 seater Ferraris etc they always end up the cheapest of the ilk.

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My Elan plus 2 was a great car I put a new Spyder chassis on it fully restored it and the engine was a top spec QED rebuild but I struggled to sell it on for decent money I realise it was pretty orange and not everyones cup of tea but I spent a small fortune on the restoration!

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PostPost by: gordont » Fri May 11, 2012 9:21 am

okay sorry but in my mind an Elan is an Elan and a Plus 2 is well.... an Elan that tries to be .. well I am not sure what it wants to be? a stretch Elan?

Beautiful/elegant looks - hmm debatable
Superb handling - no idea but looks like a boat to me
'Exotic' image - exotic name maybe ....
Good performance by the standards of it's day - I suspect a Elan is better and a Europa definitely better handling
Practicality/easy to live with - so is a Elan
Rarity (increasingly) - so is an Elan
Eminently useable - a 'mini GT' - so is an Elan

sorry but my 2 bobs worth and not meaning to upset but I dont really see the point of the Plus 2....
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri May 11, 2012 9:28 am

gordont wrote:okay sorry but in my mind an Elan is an Elan and a Plus 2 is well.... an Elan that tries to be .. well I am not sure what it wants to be? a stretch Elan?

Beautiful/elegant looks - hmm debatable
Superb handling - no idea but looks like a boat to me
'Exotic' image - exotic name maybe ....
Good performance by the standards of it's day - I suspect a Elan is better and a Europa definitely better handling
Practicality/easy to live with - so is a Elan
Rarity (increasingly) - so is an Elan
Eminently useable - a 'mini GT' - so is an Elan

sorry but my 2 bobs worth and not meaning to upset but I dont really see the point of the Plus 2....


Gordon,
:D :D some of your comments made me laugh and choke on my coffee!! trust an Aussie to get straight to the point :wink:

We just need Rohan to give the alternative antipodean viewpoint now.

I will let you know how a Europa handles versus an Elan and a +2 on track later this month, although none of the cars will be standard.

regards

Alan
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PostPost by: SAKO » Fri May 11, 2012 9:36 am

okay sorry but in my mind an Elan is an Elan and a Plus 2 is well.... an Elan that tries to be .. well I am not sure what it wants to be? a stretch Elan?

Beautiful/elegant looks - hmm debatable
Superb handling - no idea but looks like a boat to me
'Exotic' image - exotic name maybe ....
Good performance by the standards of it's day - I suspect a Elan is better and a Europa definitely better handling
Practicality/easy to live with - so is a Elan
Rarity (increasingly) - so is an Elan
Eminently useable - a 'mini GT' - so is an Elan

sorry but my 2 bobs worth and not meaning to upset but I dont really see the point of the Plus 2....




This will go down like a lead ballon. I'm far too polite to comment. :evil:

Needless to say it's a +2 in my garage, and that's through choice.

Don't own a baby Elan, don't want a baby Elan. An original Maserati Ghibli would be my first choice, but such is more than a little out of my price range. :roll:
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