Accepted Mods

PostPost by: pauljones » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:53 pm

lets not forget the 3.5/1 diff, and as mine has just failed the MOT on it id also like to sugest a rear caliper change to something more modern to allow a cable type seperate hand brake. :cry: :cry: :cry:

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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:54 pm

mr fixit wrote:JUst a quick note on Mods as I get well ahead of myself.
I want to keep the car as standard as possible but thinking that;-

1) drive shafts to CV is OK
2) electronic ignition within the dissy is OK
3) superbushes are OK

In the intersests of a more useable car, are there any other seripitous mods?


Re: "Useability"

Some might argue that a well maintained, standard car IS perfectly useable.

Your question could generate quite a list by the end of the thread...so what do you envisage the "use" will be?

"Spirited" road use only? Track days? Long Continental touring fully loaded? Racing?

(This info may help with recommendations. e.g. electronic ignition is great (I have Lumenition) but a failure can pose problems if you're up a mountain, whereas there is a lot to be said for good ol' points "that can be cleaned up on a rock by the side of the road" as has been said on here. Or what about uprated diff output shafts? or? etc)

Cheers - Richard
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:43 pm

ardee_selby wrote:electronic ignition is great (I have Lumenition) but a failure can pose problems if you're up a mountain, whereas there is a lot to be said for good ol' points "that can be cleaned up on a rock by the side of the road" as has been said on here.
Cheers - Richard



I'd like to see you scraping a dud condenser along a rock to get it working again :lol:

FWIW I favour the Aldon type system with just the magnetic trigger, much less to go wrong.

Since I fitted mine the car starts so easily it'll start on a virtually flat battery, providing it will just about turn the engine over. (I do keep the points etc in the boot just in case :wink: )
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:02 pm

nebogipfel wrote: I'd like to see you scraping a dud condenser along a rock to get it working again :lol:(I do keep the points etc in the boot just in case :wink: )


:)

It's all RAM-D analysis in my tiny mind. i.e. Availability as a function of Reliability, Maintainability and Durability taking into account MTBF, the conditions of use, ILS etc etc. :P

For instance, compare the average owners "conditions of use" with: http://rallyelan.com/ :!:

Cheers - Richard
Last edited by ardee_selby on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:23 pm

ardee_selby wrote:It's all RAM-D analyisis in my tiny mind. i.e. Availability as a function of Reliability, Maintainability and Durability taking into account MTBF, the conditions of use, ILS etc etc. :P


Now your're just trying to baffle me with bullsh... er science RD :lol:
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PostPost by: mr fixit » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:29 pm

Wow thanks chaps

The cars is in bits so I've some flexibility, but I recon I'll be adding a larger rad, braded lines, converting to and alternater.

still getting ahead of myself though !!!! :lol:
Not really sure what I've let myself in for yet

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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:05 pm

mr fixit wrote:Wow thanks chaps

The cars is in bits so I've some flexibility, but I recon I'll be adding a larger rad, braded lines, converting to and alternater.

still getting ahead of myself though !!!! :lol:


No doubt you know that not all braided lines are created equal. They have been discussed when Elans have caught fire :(

Some examples from guys who are still around on here:

"Many years ago as a safety measure I replaced my fuel hoses with expensive braided lines made up for me by a well known company. 5 years later my S2's engine bay caught fire. Luckily I was able to put it out with very little damage (thank god for the fire extinguisher). The rubber in the lines had deteriorated prematurely but you couldn't tell because the braiding was hiding it. When I pulled them apart the rubber was perished beyond belief. I no longer use braided lines, just normal fuel hose with clamps. Haven't had a problem since (5 years)."

Ref: elan-archive-f16/fire-and-elans-t4867.html

"Remember,unless braided steel hoses are teflon they are rubber inside also. And, harder to inspect until they actually leak".

Ref: elan-archive-f16/fire-t5435.html

"I agree with Brian about fuel changing over the years and I think this has caused a few problems with rubber fuel hoses and fires.A good idea on any Lotus is to put braided fuel lines on but you need to be careful as to the construction of what you are putting on.Some hoses are just rubber with a steel protective outer which adds a bit of reinforcement and protection to the rubber. The real good hoses are PTFE liner then rubber and then braiding these take considerably higher pressures and temperatures so less likely to fail. It's always worth asking when you buy hoses so you know what you are getting. Cliveyboy"

Ref: elan-archive-f16/fire-safety-t4864.html

No doubt I'm in grannies & eggs territory but thought it worth a mention.

Cheers - Richard
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PostPost by: simonknee » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:36 pm

ardee_selby wrote:It's all RAM-D analysis in my tiny mind. i.e. Availability as a function of Reliability, Maintainability and Durability taking into account MTBF, the conditions of use, ILS etc etc.


Now I know what MTBF means but the others required googling...

RAM-D = Risk Assessment Methodology for Dams http://www.sandia.gov/ram/RAMD.htm
ILS = Instrument Landing System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system
(of course you all know as well as I that MTBF = MegaTon Bomb Fallout)

What on earth is Richard planning to do in his Elan??
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PostPost by: Galwaylotus » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:47 pm

MTBF: Mean Time Between Failure = Total run time / Number of failures(breakdowns)
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:14 am

You won't need a larger rad...it's an early car and they had one as standard. I was advised by Tony Thompson (of TTR) that my Plus 2 with a BDA engine must be fitted with one of his high-spec ally radiators, as the engine wouldn't last 5 minutes with a standard radiator. It has lasted 41 years and 80,000 miles, commuting around London and touring southern Europe in the summer.

As with any classic car, the further away from standard you go, you more you devalue the car. Folks will only pay top money for a factory authentic car. As this is one of the earliest Elan Plus 2 cars in the world, that applies even more so.

Of course, bolt-on changes don't make any difference, as they can be put back to original specification easily. But go for a non-standard colour, or a white leather interior piped in purple, and you're dropping the value by the amount it would cost to rectify...in the case of paint, that's a lot! It didn?t worry a mate of mine who ordered a new TVR in Aston Villa colours, despite everybody including Peter Wheeler trying to persuade him not to! Three years later when he came to trade the car in, when the same year and model was going for ?22k, the best he was offered was ?15k. An expensive (and hideous) colour scheme!

The wiring loom of a Plus 2 is fine for the purposes for which it was designed, and very little more. Start to add load, like central locking, electric headlamp motors, electric fuel pump, powerful headlamps...etc. etc., and you will certainly need to think about adding protection to the loom, and beefing it up in some places.

The charging circuit is also fine running a dynamo unless you want to start to add significant extra load. I've never seen a contemporary road test that complains about the battery always being flat, and when I used my Elan as an everyday car, summer and winter, I never had any problems with charging or lack of volts with everything being used. Of course, an alternator is more efficient, as is a Zetec engine.

The first area that I feel is worthwhile enhancing is the rotoflex couplings. Nothing wrong with the original design...it protected everything well. But the repro rotoflexes have had a reputation of failing within a year or so of fitting due to the rubber / metal bond coming apart....and they are now very expensive. I put new rotoflexes on my S3 Elan in '79 and they are still in good condition! Have a look at solid driveshafts from TTR or Sue Miller, although I seem to recall that one or two folks are having problems with some of those now.

The second area that I would enhance would be the engine. A Plus 2 with the standard 109 S/E bhp (when new) isn't too nippy, and for little more when rebuilding the engine, a reliable and tractable 140 to 150 bhp is very simple to get. Any more than that and the engine gets a bit lumpy and normal driving can become a bit of a chore.

Other than those two mods, I would tend towards standard specification.

Mark
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:42 am

nebogipfel wrote: Now your're just trying to baffle me with bullsh... er science RD :lol:


simonknee wrote: What on earth is Richard planning to do in his Elan??


:shock: :)

Sorry if I've muddied/muddled the water, Mr. Fixit.

I don't think I should say any more. In a hole? Stop digging! Right?

At least Mark has posted something sensible!

Cheers - Richard

(Maybe I'll try to explain what I was getting at elsewhere)
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:35 pm

Elanintheforest wrote:
SNIP


Other than those two mods, I would tend towards standard specification.

Mark


With respect to Mark, I disagree with the originality is best for monetary resale value argument. Very few +2's sell for more than ?20,000 but those that do are mostly Spyder zetec's. Spyder will build you one for ?35,000 including the donor car and 3 years later you can sell it for ?20-?24k, that may well be a 35% drop, but I haven't seen any standard restored cars recently doing any better. ( you can build your own for ?20K)
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: jimj » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:18 pm

Showing respect for Spiderman, there`s no need to justify personal choice, it`s your car and your choice but Elans and +2s losing money? I`ve not heard of that.
Jim
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:56 pm

I'm not so sure that a full Spyder car is a modified Elan....surely it's a car in it's own right? If so it isn't really comparing like with like...A totally re-engineered 'semi=modern' car compared with a modified classic car.

If the modifications include replacing the chassis, engine, gearbox, differential, front suspension, rear suspension, steering, brakes, wheels and a host of other bits and pieces, then most of what an Elan left the factory with has been thrown away.

If I was to mount an Elan shell on a Land Rover chassis and running gear, would it be a 4WD Elan? Or a Landy with a different body?

I would guess that the value of a Spyder Plus 2 follows more of a 'new car depreciation' profile than that of a classic car that has been restored, so its price wouldn't reflect that of an Elan Plus 2, to authentic spec or modified spec.

Discuss. :shock:
Mark
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PostPost by: trw99 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:09 pm

mr fixit wrote:JUst a quick note on Mods as I get well ahead of myself.
I want to keep the car as standard as possible but thinking that;-

1) drive shafts to CV is OK
2) electronic ignition within the dissy is OK
3) superbushes are OK

In the intersests of a more useable car, are there any other seripitous mods?


Since mrfixit wishes to keep his car as standard as possible, sensible chap that he is, another way of looking at this might be to say that any mods should only be those available back in the day.

A lot of owners justify their mods by saying 'If Chapman had been alive now this is what he would have done' which, when you think about is tosh. How could we second guess what he may or may not have approved? Even in his own lifetime he moved away from the Elan concept and we have read how he quickly tired of a project once he had new ones to get his teeth into.

Ultimately I too am of the school that it's your car, you do what you wish to whilst it's in your ownership. As someone keen on historical context with a natural lean toward originality, I hope that most people recognise they have a degree of responsibility toward the future owners of their Elan and that at the very least will keep those parts of the car they replace available for the next owner. And as an aside on that topic, wasn't a classic recently sold at auction that came complete with it's original chassis, despite having had a new one fitted? That sort of think would certainly help maintain authenticity and originality, whilst allowing the car to carry on being used.

Tim
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