Lotus Elan

Plus2S130/4 K missfire

PostPost by: plus2OK » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:43 am

Hi there, thanks for the posts.
I have been unable to investigate further as a terrible thing has happened
I have recently been informed that my eldest daughter has set the date for her marriage??. And wants a marquee in the garden ! I bought my 1st Plus 2 about 10 years ago?.. Which is a bit of a coincidence , as that was about the last time I did any D.I.Y at home?.oh boy have I been read the riot act!!! So I am currently feverishly setting about the list of jobs that need doing ( it?s a very very ,very big list ) And get this,,, the added complication ?. I purchased the car 2 years ago using the money that we had sensibly saved up for the time when the 3 children got married . And like a complete dick I told everybody that?s what I had done (see post made on this forum ?How old were you when you bought your elan?? quote
?Bought 2nd one just over a year ago at 51 ....I persuaded my better half that it would be an investment, she believed me! so we used the cash put to one side for my daughters weddings. I have recently told them that getting wed is now out of the question, and that they will have to live "overt'brush" as we say in Yorkshire.? Oh what wicked webs we weave, I suppose it serves me right. I am of course desperate to get in the garage to investigate, but the risk is currently too great . I will sneak out next week.
Anyway back to the business in hand The car, until it broke down was running great, always started within seconds , it started to miss at 60-65mph . It has a Luminition conversion And is only 1,500 miles since full rebuild .
I would like to ask the following?. Is it possible for the timing to suddenly loose
The beat?
Thanks Richard , I will take a look at the connections to the ignition leads
and then cheers Paul/Galway lotus, I will replace the coil if its not that I am sure a spare will not go amiss. Luckily it?s a white elan?..perfect for weddings. Have you seen how much they charge for wedding cars? Is it possible do you think to get the bride and three bridesmaids in a Plus 2?.?..trailer???
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PostPost by: Sea Ranch » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:48 am

You're a funny man, Paul. :wink: :shock: :mrgreen:

We wish you the best of luck (and beyond the nuptials, think of the extra space you'll have as your daughters marry and move out). :mrgreen:

And when you're finally able to get back to the car (next spring, perhaps :wink: ), we'll be here, patiently waiting for our update. Because, as is widely know, we have no life . . . :cry:

:wink:

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PostPost by: Jason1 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:33 am

Hi

If the coil is hot I would suspect that first. I remember one on a Mini that was so hot you could not touch it after 5 minutes. I tracked it down in the end to a dirty contact on the fuses box; causing a massive amperage at the coil. Sometimes the silly little things are the hardest to find.

Take all the plugs out; do they all look the same colour? If you can pin the misfire down to a single cylinder then you are nearly there. If you can pinpoint the cylinder you can swap the HT leads and plugs to see if that transfers the fault to another cylinder.
Do a cylinder compression test; it may be a burnt valve?

The optical lumention is very good but make sure you earth the control box and make sure the pins in the white multi plug connection are not bent. I am told the only other fault with this system is the earth inside the unit coming loose; but you cannot get to this. These are the only faults I have every heard of for this system and is why I always use them. Lots of people use the magnetic unit but I know people that have had the spinning magnets detach after a very short time so prefer the optical unit.

I would renew the plugs, coil, rotor arm and cap as they are cheap and then easy to rule out. Check the resistance of the HT leads; they are more or less the same length so should all be pretty similar; any showing a massive resistance should be renewed. Also check the car running in the dark and you may be able to spot a leaking lead by the nice fireworks display.

That should keep you busy for awhile and help you to rule out lots and hopefully pinpoint the misfiring cylinder.

I would always test the ignition and compression before playing with the fuel pump or carbs.

Let us know the results.

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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:26 pm

I think that this entire thread is a scam; I'm prepared to offer you ?50 to take the car (obviously a pile of crap) off your hands as a contribution to your daughter's wedding. :wink:
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PostPost by: plus2OK » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:05 pm

Thanks Randy, I do my best?.I?ve been up to my elbows in paint since Friday, I must have gained some brownie points. There is no way I will leave my pride & joy for long, with the info from your previous thread, and the latest posts it should be pretty straight forward, even for a novice like me. I should be able to sort out a coil early this week

Cheers Jason for all the info ,the stuff on the Luminition was especially helpful , I did not have this on my last plus 2 and was grateful not to be fighting to check points gaps. I am looking forward to the investigation and finding a solution? Its brilliant to have this resourse to call on , thanks to all.

Ha, Ha Pete if only that were true! Do you do wedding photos ? To be fair, if I had to choose between either the wedding reception at Mc Donalds or selling the lotus there would be no contest?? do Mc D?s do parties of 100 ? But thanks for your offer. ?50 sight unseen is certainly a brave bid?. anyway ,I will keep it in mind. !
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PostPost by: Sea Ranch » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:49 am

Make sure you include a photo of your backyard wedding/reception setup in this thread; after all, we're giving you time off to work on your yard :wink:

No hurry, of course . . . :mrgreen:
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PostPost by: Jason1 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:37 pm

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/restaurants/birthdays.shtml

If i'd known this I may have had my wedding there. :lol: :lol:
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PostPost by: plus2OK » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:01 pm

Problem solved?.. After a long couple of months I managed to have a go at fixing the non starting problems I had. Following Randys advice I swapped the coil ?. No improvement I then double checked all ignition leads at the distributor end and at the Spark plugs?.still no joy. Refreshed the battery with trickle charger? still nothing. By this time none of the plugs were firing, I checked them
For spark and all seemed OK. The plugs did seem dry though , so I took the tops of the webers, there was juice there but only ? of an inch or so ( I do not know how full the bowls should be) I checked for fuel by disconnecting the feed to the carbs , as I had been advised, and very little fuel seemed to come out I then moved to the fuel pump and unscrewed the glass bowl which was full of fuel. There did seem to be a lot of fine black crud at the bottom around the rubber seal, I tried to remove the fine filter but was unable to so I cleaned it insitu. Its a real bugger trying to do this without taking the carbs off,!!! I refitted the bowl and tried to start and loads of fine bubbles came up and then ?..wait for it a small piece of Straw!!!! After removing this she started . I had assumed that because the fuel pump bowl was full the pump must be working OK. I have yet to test on the road but think all will be OK
Thanks for all the advice????. OH and as far as my daughters wedding is concerned the numbers have grown so much that a bigger venue is required!! So I can now stop preparing the house for the wedding in the garden, and spend my time on the Lotus> >>>> Its got to be running faultlessly as Lizzie wants me to take her to the Church in it will post snaps after August

What is the difference between a ballast and non-ballast coil?? And which sort does the Luminition
Ignition require? I swapped the coil for a DB101 coil it looked the same as the one I took off
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PostPost by: Sea Ranch » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:43 am

Hey, Paul: wonderful news and thanks for posting. I guess the "fuel guys" had it correct, here. Before I recommission for the spring, one of the things I'll be checking again is fuel flow. :mrgreen:

The general info on "ballast" coils is that they have separate connectors for the starter circuit and the "run" circuit, with "ballast" or resistor in place for the run circuit. This means the coil won't get the full 12-14 volts output of the generator/alternator (which voltage would quickly overheat the coil). But the other connector should bypass this onboard resistor so that when starting, the coil will get whatever voltage the battery can supply (after being pulled down somewhat by the starter motor); improves spark and starting.

Of course, don't run a ballast coil when the car has an external ballast resistor in place (or at least don't use the terminal that incorporates the coil's built-in ballast resistor). :wink:

And all that yardwork gone to waste??? Hmm . . . But we still get to see the car decked out for the wedding shots, right? Those will be very memorable, I'm sure!!

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PostPost by: plus2OK » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:24 pm

Cheers for the info on the ballast coils Randy, I think I mentioned in the last post that my coil was very hot on occasion? I have now replaced it with a Lucas DB101 which I presume does not have a ballast resistor?, would I be better off with one? Sounds like it to me. I was looking through my small w/shop manual ( brooklands books one)to try to learn a bit more about them , there is very limited info given, but it does say that a ?special coil is available to replace the standard coil?Under Cold start igntion coil heading
Yep all that work for nowt ...but the light of my life is now a much happier woman, and the house looks a hell of a lot better now! I must remember to clean off the seat belts, as in an effort to spruce them up a bit I put on some blacking ( I did all the rubber seals with it also) they came up great but, theres usually a but?.. If you drive with a white shirt it rubs off ?it would make a terrible mess of Lizzies Wedding dress!!
I have already done a trial run as a wedding car , my mates son got married last year and I took him to the church in the Lotus I managed to borrow a chauffeurs cap and did the job properly. So I already have the white tape. I will dig the photos out and post one?. when you see it you will understand why I have made the decision to ditch the cap for Lizzies do!!
Cheers again Paul
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PostPost by: plus2OK » Sun May 27, 2012 4:19 pm

continuation of this thread ...... I was Plus2OK author of this thread but was unable to get on forum ( could not find details and old email address now defunct) so now known as paul2s
I unfortunately still have problems..... I had cleaned out fuel pump ( without taking off carbs or mechanical AC fuel pump) so perhaps not a brilliant job done, but car started and ran , however after about 10 miles engine starts to miss , gets progressively worse and then the car stops. On leaving the car for 5 mins
it starts and revs OK . The temp guage reads OK, oil pressure OK.
I have tried the following after reading Randys thread ( Sea Ranch) , his problem seemed very similar to my own so I am using it as the basis for my investigations
Bought and fitted new coil from Paul Matty ..... I seemed to get the bouncing tach problem ( never had that before) and the car still started to miss after a similar length run
Fitted a new 74degree thermostat from PM ( previous one was an 88degree German brass one with the small hole in it)
fitted new New NGK BP6ES plugs (previous ones champion N12YC)
Checked condition of new plugs after run?. Very sooty?all of them
Previously before the problem arose colour of electrodes looked Ok
As in my 2 years of ownership the car has performed faultlessly and always revved freely I am at a loss what has happened to change things so dramatically.
Randys ( Sea Ranch?s) problem was eventually cured after he replaced his ?new? coil.
Because all the plugs are black I thought it may be a lack of air and investigated the air filter, it is a canister type with a crossland 9005 paper/rubber filter element. It was full of debris , but did not look
sufficiently caked to restrict airflow ?..in my very inexperienced opinion. My last Plus 2 had the correct pancake filter
As I mentioned in the previous thread I have Luminition electronic ignition The dizzy cap and rotor
look OK.I am thinking of perhaps fitting new ignition leads and caps???
The car runs on unleaded i use high octane with additive
So to sum up I am uncertain where to look next any help from you guys will be most welcome
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PostPost by: simonknee » Sun May 27, 2012 5:40 pm

Since you have not done it yet get a new dizzy cap and leads.
These are useful spares even if they are not the culprit.

Have you checked what the spark is or is not doing when it is in the five minute period of not working?
Either by pulling a plug and earthing it to the engine (zing-ouch) or using a strobe?

Simon
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PostPost by: simonknee » Sun May 27, 2012 5:46 pm

Oh and when I had Lumentition it was always the earth to the box that screwed me up.
It either got dirty or loose or corroded or just fell off!

Earlier in the thread a poster mentioned the magnets coming off the other type of electronic ignition.
In the Pertronix unit this would be impossible as it is a solid ring that fits over the cam.
However mine felt a little loose so I added a shim of insulating tape.

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PostPost by: simonknee » Sun May 27, 2012 5:47 pm

Have you checked the small fuel filters in the carbs (assuming weber - other types I do not know about)?
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PostPost by: plus2OK » Sun May 27, 2012 9:20 pm

Cheers Simon ,

Have you checked what the spark is or is not doing when it is in the five minute period of not working?

excellent idea, will take it for a run and try that
The distributor cap was checked it looked OK but I think it was a cheap one as the pegs were ally, I think cap, rotor and leads change is next
tomorrow I will take alook at the filters on the webers. Although what is happening really sounds like the coil breaking down..... I can't believe
that the new one I bought from paul matty is faulty.... ???
Cheers Paul
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