Lotus Elan

Any half decent +2s out there for about ?5000

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:46 pm

Hi Tim...I bought a JPS yesterday with the original chassis. Garaged and unused since 1984, the chassis, like yours, is solid, I will probably pull the body off at some time just to check it out and repaint it, as everything else will need doing anyway it's a lot easier with the body off.

Back to values, I really don't see Plus 2 values being much different to 2 seat Elan values, especially the coupes. Dhc's will always have a premium, but a good restored Plus 2 or coupe will fetch about the same money...?10k ish for a really nice sorted car and ?15k ish for a very original and detailed one.

What seems to be skewing the apparent value of the Plus 2s are the large number of poorly restored / never restored cars that have come onto the market for something between ?2k and ?5k. They are often sheds that require a lot of work, or are worth more for spares.

As more Plus 2s get scrapped or restored or converted into Spydermachines, the supply of cheap cars will run out, and the perceived value will increase, as the only ones you'll be able to buy are ?10k to ?15k. It's happened to 2 seaters, Type 14 Elites, Mk1 Lotus Cortinas and now Mk 2 Lotus Cortinas. It will happen to Plus 2s, and I reckon over the next couple of years. It's not that they will have gone up in value, just that you won't be able to buy cheap cars (or spares) any more.

So buy up those scrappers and tired Plus 2s now...you'll regret not doing so pretty soon! Only 5000 were made, so far more rare than a 2 seater, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were less than 1500 left in the world.

Mark
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PostPost by: thor » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:32 pm

I agree completely with Mark here, and it would also be a shame with too many Spyder and full Zetecs around to my mind. But this calls for the classic car community at large to wake up to this beautiful machine and give it its due respect.

I'm saying this with my own having had a Spyder conversion in the late eighties, chassis including wishbones and sills. But I'm not reverting, as it is not visible, and it had one fastidious previous owner the last 26 years before me. Still keeping the rest completely original down to this season's new Firestone 165/80 tyres, and revelling in the sweet balance and roadholding with makes my Golf feel like an artic...
Lowered suspension, 14" Minilites and Zetec conversion cars spoil the original feel and driving sensation and will never keep their values or increase like an increasingly rare well kept original one.

Sorry don't mean to open a Spyder/Zetec can of worms here--... :?
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PostPost by: barefoot » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:27 pm

There are definitely still nice original cars out there for this sort of money. I bought mine off eBay for ?5,000 after having spoken to the owner who was only it's 2nd with 55,000 genuine miles. He was an older gent that loved his cars and had spent lots of money on the car in the couple of years he had it. The biggest factor for me was the rebuilt QED engine inc strengthened bottom end costing ?5,000 with all bills and history to prove engine and mileage.

He had also spent ?3,000 on a repaint from red to orange, which I think had put people off. I won the car without viewing and went with a trailer to Birmingham to collect. The car had brand new tyres and refurbished Lotus alloys. I was gob smacked how good the car was. The paintwork looked brill but under close scrutiny had a couple of defects but the engine was so gutsy and smooth. The interior was lovely he had installed a new Paul Matty dash and for ?5,000 was giving the car away considering the money he had spent getting it into shape. HE HAD ONLY DONE 500 MILES ON THE NEW ENGINE!

As soon as I got it home after reading comments on here and elsewhere I purchased a new Spyder chassis with twin rear springs etc off a guy from Pistonheads who had never used it. As mine was a 69 car I thought it would be the 1st job needed doing but with the engine alone costing the asking price I didn't care. I took the car to a specialist to have it checked over very thoroughly and to do all jobs plus give me a price for the chassis swap. When I went to collect he told me the chassis was perfect no accident damage anywhere on the car and if looked after was good for another 50,000 miles!

So I now have a spare chassis and have done about 3,000 trouble free miles and love it to bits! I bought a 2nd hand 130S interior, as mine was the old bucket front/back seats, and had a new one off leather interior fitted with new carpets and headlining. I bought a new HRW and I had the cam cover and air box colour coded but you have to like orange!

The original interior
Image

The new interior
Image
Image

The engine
Image

The car
Image[/img]
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PostPost by: thor » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:48 pm

I think the orange paintjob was sharp, as I like 70's cars like the Miura... but prefer the original interior (though would probably change the seats to +2S130 seats for the comfort.

But WHY WHY WHY! :shock: would you want the interior to look so thoroughly MODERN!? AAARGH The contrast of the sober black interior with the orange body was fab! But that's just me.

Nevertheless you got an absolute Bargain... :)
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PostPost by: 1964 S1 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:18 am

Yes, a very good buy, and now that we're nearly off track I'd like to say I love the orange and black interior, even though I totally lean toward originality.
I'll bet it looks even better when approaching the car and viewed through the windows, interior/exterior, as one with the car.
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PostPost by: hatman » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:24 pm

Referring back to the original question posted, I see that there's one in February's Practical Classics that appears to be worth a look:- 1969 +2S, MoT'd to June, same owner for last 15 years, valued at ?6500, asking ?3750. Probably gone by now though, but worth a call.
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PostPost by: berni29 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:18 am

Hi There

On the original chassis question, I have had a few +2's in one form or another including a 26,000 mile car whose chassis looked perfect until it came back from the shot blasters with cracking to both front turrets showing. I also had an early + 2 which seemed fine but had vicious cracks under the accumilated gunge. In my opinion anyone with an original chassis is on borrowed time, big time.

All the best

Berni
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PostPost by: wulmar » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:58 am

berni29 wrote:Hi There

On the original chassis question, I have had a few +2's in one form or another including a 26,000 mile car whose chassis looked perfect until it came back from the shot blasters with cracking to both front turrets showing. I also had an early + 2 which seemed fine but had vicious cracks under the accumilated gunge. In my opinion anyone with an original chassis is on borrowed time, big time.

All the best

Berni
yes i agree with that you cant see stress fatigue with the naked eye
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PostPost by: tdafforn » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:06 pm

My question would be that if you have a car on its original chassis that has done 60K miles and compare it to one that has a replacement lotus chassis but has done 120K miles will it suffer from the same cracks?
I certainly saw 2 replacement lotus chassis on cars for sale that had visible problems.
I guess the best situation to be in is to have a car with a recent (<20K miles) replacement.
Slightly off topic, does the spyder spaceframe suffer from the same cracking problems?
Tim
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:43 am

Tim

The only issue I have had with my Spyder space frame chassis on the Plus 2 after about 60k miles of relatively rough Australian roads is cracking at the 2 brackets where the chassis and body are bolted together where the front Y starts. Caused by body and chassis twist / flex I presume.

I have made up alloy plates to clamp in place and reinforce these brackets, see photo below. Otherwise the chassis is as good as new.

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: Jason1 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:04 pm

Rohan

That's funny, I have a Spyder chassis and both my front mounts have previously been broken like yours. I spoke to Sue Miller who sold the car to the PO and she says Mick welded them several times. They are fine for now but I always check them when I am under there.

I thought it was just mine :)

Have you had any problems since fitting the new plates?? This could be the cure for next time?

Jason
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:55 am

HI Jason

I left the cracks in the original mounting brackets as welding thin cracked metal is very hard to get right and beyond my welding skill level. The added alloy plates effectively carry the load back to the main chassis member. Since I fitted the plates the cracks have not changed in the spyder brackets in the last 20,000 miles so I figure the alloy plates are working OK.

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: SimonH » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:10 pm

Dont know if a car is still required but this one doesnt look too bad here. Its not the orginal colour and has done a fair few miles but looks clean enough and does have a galvanised chassis.
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PostPost by: thor » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:44 pm

Looks lovely, nice colour too, looks like (Jaguar)Brooklands green, which is my favourite dark green, though not a Lotus colour.....
(the colour of your green one Berni isn't it?)

BUY it. :D
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PostPost by: wulmar » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:51 pm

SimonH wrote:Dont know if a car is still required but this one doesnt look too bad here. Its not the orginal colour and has done a fair few miles but looks clean enough and does have a galvanised chassis.
yes had a look, pics not the best to see colour,you would think it was black, have spoke to the owner who has sent me more pics but still looks almost black (dark green) car does sound interesting only i would have to take owners word on condition as to far to veiw.
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