My first Elan, my first problem...

[DaveyBoy]

Hello all,

I've been browsing this forum with much interest in the last few weeks, but now (alas) the time has come to use it in anger.

Having purchased a 1973 +2 S130/5 a few weeks ago, I had my first breakdown yesterday . I braved my first "long" trip from Gloucester to Bournemouth and on the way back, all went awry.

Essentially, having completed a fair bit of the return journey, the engine started to die on me. It sounded like it wasn't running on all cylinders and promptly cut out completely. Having little technical knowledge, but much enthusiasm, I changed the spark plugs, played with alot of connections and hoped for the best. Having completed said 'stabs in dark', the engine would start and rev, but would not idle. Under load it would cut-out. I thought it might be the coil and hoped that it might get me home once it had cooled down, which it did in dribs and drabs. The longer I let the engine cool(??), the further it would take me without cutting out.

I've read previous posts with regards to faulty coils, but couldn't quite understand (if the coil was at fault) why the engine would rev o.k, but die under load? Does anyone have any ideas? I have little experience with car mechanics/electrics, but am willing to have a go at anything!

As an aside (probably unrelated), the tachometer sticks at random rpm every now and again and wont move irrespective of revs. I read that the tach is connected to the coil, so wondered if this might point to something.

Apologies for a long winded first post

[marcfuller]

Are you sure it is not a fuel line blockage?

[DaveyBoy]

Not entirely sure no. It's just that the engine performance consistently improved with time (as it cooled I assumed). For example, I left it an hour and it would run for 10 miles, I left it for 15 mins and it would run a mile, I tried it soon after it cut out and it would barely move 20 yards... I would have thought that a fuel blockage would have led to more erratic behaviour?

[marcfuller]

Not necessarily. More time may allow for clog to relax more and temporarily allow more fuel, before reforming under fuel demand. With the highest demand (under load) the clog reforms quickly and tightly and the engine cuts out. In any case it is a easy and cheap check.

At the time of a stall did you check spark at the plug? Or try supplemental fuel?

[Elanintheforest]

Well, Daveyboy, I guess that the car is suffering from the malady that besets many older cars, not just Elans. When they sit around not being used for a while they sulk and some nasties happen. I had the same symptoms and it turned out to be both the coil and crap getting into the carbs

It?s fairly common on the Plus 2 for the petrol tank to rust internally, and with use, these rust scales will drop off into the fuel and work their way into the carbs and cause the sort of problem you are having. Also, the fuel line from pump to carbs, if it?s an old rubber one, can brake up or de-laminate?it may look OK from the outside but be rotting on the inside. The pipe from tank to pump doesn?t usually give problems. The pump diaphragm could be split.

If it is any of these items, the carbs will have to come off for cleaning. Check the pump?if it has rubbish in it, then the tank needs sorting out. I?d replace the pump to carb pipe as a matter of course?.too many Elans go up in flames because of perished pipes.

Before you do any of this you could replace the coil, condenser, points and distributor cap just to make sure. They are pretty easy to access on a Plus 2. Clean up any connections?that includes all the earth points you can find.

It?s pretty much got to be sorted if you fix that lot. But whilst you?re covered in oil and blood, make sure that the pipes that go from the number 1 inlet manifold to the vacuum tank, and number 4 inlet manifold to the servo, are OK and holding vacuum.

That?s your next weekend (or two) taken care of!
Mark

[chrishewett]

Hi and welcome,
There are guys on this forum who know far more than me ( thank god) but your problem seems to me to be electrical, probably. The tacho seems to give it away. The best way to check the coil is to substitute it and see if the problem goes away.
Is your ignition system original? What is the history of the car? As you will have deduced from this forum they are prone to elecrical gremlins.
I would highly recommend the Aldon igniter electronic ignition, bearing in mind the location of the dizzy, and it doesn't affect my tacho.
No doubt this post will be followed by many more with better advice than I can give.
Chris

[blueseamonkey]

My car did something pretty similar at one point, very erratic, ok for a bit, then behaving exactly as you described, (although my tach had always been dodgy so can't help you on that point). It turned out to be just a loose connection on the electric fuel pump, knocked loose by something in the boot, so I agree that a close look at the fuel line may be in order, especially if the electrics don't turn anything up.
(I'm not one of the clever people Chris was talking about though!)
Rick

[DaveyBoy]

Thanks for the quick responses! I knew if I posted a problem i'd end up panicking at the thought of all the potential problems!

Marc, the car would re-start, so there must have been a spark. No I did not try supplemental fuel, but i'm not sure that the problem would have been apparent when stationary anyway. The other thing is, i recently drained the fuel system and gave the carbs a quick clean and everything seemed clear - no visible debris in float chamber. Still I guess I could have developed a blockage.

I guess i'll have to replace the electrical components and take a look at the fuel lines. Next two weekends are definately taken up, but seeing as I only half completed installing a kitchen a week ago, 'er indoors isn't going to be too happy!

[alaric]

Hi. The symptoms sound the same as my failed mini coil from many years ago - it was ok if I kept the revs above 4k or so. It didn't want to idle. I put it down to a weak spark vs the quality of the fuel air mixture and temperature of the combustion chamber - only theories though.

As you've just cleaned up the carbs, is it possible that you overtightened the thackary washers on re-fitting or that they need replacing; they're supposed to provide a spring loaded retention so that the carbs don't get the full vibration of the engine. Apparently you can get frothing of the fuel in the float chambers if the carbs vibrate too much - sounds barking to me, but that's what I've read.

I fitted the Aldon ignitor too. For the price I reckon it's money well spent; get rid of anything that can let you down, like the points.

Sean.

[twincamman]

condenser ----condenser --condenser ---------oh it sounds like the condenser may be on the way out ---- ed

[gino1]

I'll agree with Mark; fuel blockage.
Change the filter.
Gino S3 Elan
Italy

[cliveyboy]

If you think it is the coil check if you are using the 9v ballasted system or the 12v as the wrong coil could give you these syptoms.
A new coil is not that expensive but if you just want to swop one over to try I have a couple of good 9v coils in my garage you can borrow.
Clive
(Oxfordshire)

[collins_dan]

Your first problem may be the same as my first problem, electronic ignition not getting along with tach. Disconnect the tach and see what happens. I'm new to this game as well, so may be completely wrong, but it won't cost anything to see if the 2 items are related. Dan

[DaveyBoy]

Thanks for all your advice, I shall try looking at each suggestion in turn, but I thought i'd start with the coil. I took the old one off this evening and it has no markings in terms of part numbers or voltage . Is it necessary to replace coil voltage like for like, or is there just a reccomended coil type that I can fit regardless. In case it makes any difference, I have a Luminition ignition fitted.

I also had a look at the distributor cap and rotor arm, but it all looked in good nick.

[twincamman]

go back to points and a condenser ----ed