Lotus Elan

Brand New Lotus Twin Cam Engine From 1964

PostPost by: trw99 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:43 pm

Surprised no-one else has clocked this.

At first I was somewhat cynical. But then ...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Twin-C ... R9Vu5U4z64

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:54 am

Thanks for posting. Looks like Lotus brush painted the early heads grey prior to assembly with the block. Looks like they painted the interior with Glyptal too, I think they stopped painting the later heads grey (around 1970-71) based on what i can gather. Would have cut a lot of cost by doing so. What a find!
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:12 am

Certainly an interesting piece of history. But there's a bit of work to turn it into a working engine and add the required parts so not much change out of 10k pounds and you can build a new race engine for that. If looking for an original engine of the time its invaluable but you still will not have a true "matching numbers" engine if originality is what you value.

It also shows how poor the casting and surface machining of the heads was back then, its needs work before assembly IMHO !

Its also had some "playing" with over the years. If you look at the head face photo you can see some of the valve head faces have cylinder numbers etched on them and some don't and those with numbers are not all in the right cylinders. Normally you only etch valve numbers when dismantling a head or building a blue printed engine.

I have always believed Lotus painted the engines after assembly from original engines I have seen. Maybe because this was sold as a set of spares they painted the head without assembly, with it rather roughly with paint on the gasket face. They did not bother to paint the block :lol:

I would love to be able to afford to buy just for the history and to have the opportunity to measure up in detail an original set of major engine components. I hope whoever buys it posts some more photos and details

cheers
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:13 am

rgh0 wrote:I have always believed Lotus painted the engines after assembly from original engines I have seen. Maybe because this was sold as a set of spares they painted the head without assembly, with it rather roughly with paint on the gasket face. They did not bother to paint the block


Based on detective work on two Twin Cam Escorts of remaining original paint chips I think the completed short block assembly with front pulley and timing cover less oil pump (less sump also in the case of the Escort) was painted as a unit separately from the head. On 70-72 Escorts at least the head was not painted and fitted as cast.

The only way I think it would be possible to determine whether the head and block were originally painted together in the assembled condition is to find an original engine where the original rubber head to block breather is still intact. If it has grey paint on it we can then deduce that they were painted together - now there's a challenge for the anoraks!!
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
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Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:40 pm

I'm a fan of NOS parts as generally speaking the quality and tolerances are much better.

I would have been tempted to buy this if it has been marketed a few years ago. Someone will make an interesting purchase.

In the case of engines, the excellent availability of accurate engine parts makes the find less "essential".
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:22 am

That engine would be better left as is as a museum piece and measurement reference standard.
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1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:40 am

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PostPost by: Mazzini » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:27 am

Looking at the cam caps - does anybody know when nyloc nuts were introduced? From memory, I think contemporary Jaguar XK engines used plain nuts and serrated shake proof washers.
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PostPost by: jono » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:12 am

Mazzini wrote:Looking at the cam caps - does anybody know when nyloc nuts were introduced? From memory, I think contemporary Jaguar XK engines used plain nuts and serrated shake proof washers.


I observed that as well and wondered the same?

I have found only 'aerotight' type nuts when stripping down my '68 car which has never been apart, no nylocs.
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PostPost by: alanr » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:40 pm

A search reveals the following..
The Locknut using fibre instead of nylon was apparently first invented in 1931:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locknut
This company claim the first US patent on the Nyloc in 1964:-
https://www.aicfast.com/nylon-insert-locknuts/

So it seems they were around in 1964 when it is claimed the engine was new.

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PostPost by: Mazzini » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:59 pm

Thanks for that Alan.

I asked a chum whom runs an E-type Jaguar restoration business, he reckoned it's bad engineering to use a nyloc in an engine, I didn't tell him that I've been doing it for forty years :-)
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PostPost by: The Veg » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:40 pm

Mazzini wrote:Thanks for that Alan.

I asked a chum whom runs an E-type Jaguar restoration business, he reckoned it's bad engineering to use a nyloc in an engine, I didn't tell him that I've been doing it for forty years :-)


Did he explain why he thought this?
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:19 pm

The heat from the engine softening the nylon inserts and the possibility of bits of nylon coming off.

I can't say that the nylocs have ever caused me a problem.
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PostPost by: The Veg » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:47 am

Yeah he's probably over-thinking it. Most types of nylon are good up to somewhere above 200C.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:31 am

Probably nylon burns, I bet there is some residual.
Ever burnt your shoe lace ends, thats over 200
Betcha residual locks the nut

To my knowledge, no manufacture uses this. Nor has ever, the engineers use mechanical forces. Not suspect glue/composites.

I believe wire strand washers, are modern practice in this application.

This doesnt mean composite plastics dont work, merely not practiced. If you look at heat ratings of some poly/nylon that is pliable and resistant up to 350. But 500-700 is a bit of a stretch.
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