Lotus Elan

MOT exemption and Agreed value insurance.

PostPost by: Craven » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:24 pm

MOT exemption and Agreed value insurance.
Time of year when our classic car insurance will be coming up for renewal, in searching around and reading comments various forum?s came across a point that only up to 50% of the agreed value would be paid if there was no MOT certificate. Can anyone confirm this is in their policy.
Last edited by Craven on Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:17 pm

? whose policy ?
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PostPost by: nigelrbfurness » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:18 am

UK ONLY - I realise the vast majority of forum members are in the US where diffeent rules apply. We have a range of vehicles on MOT exemption in our collection and all insured with agreed value insurance through two different companies. We discussed this thoroughly with the companies concerned at the start of MOT exemption and are happy that not having a recent mot certificate does not in any way affect the insurance. Check your documentation. You will probably find that all it says is that your vehicle must meet the legal requirement if it is to be driven on the public highway. If your vehicle requires an MOT certificate to do this, then it is helpful to have one if you are going to make a claim. If it is not required to have one, then you don't need one for insurance or any other legal use. Having an MOT certificate does not materially affect the value of your car for insurance purposes, "agreed value" is exactly that, an agreement between you and the insurance company as to the value of the carcat the time you insure it. If the vehicle is written off, they are obliged to meet their agreement, they can't argue about it unless on inspection after an accident you clearly intended to defraud the insurance company.
1970 S4SE/1760cc big valve/SA-AX block, L2s, 45DCOEs, 1978 Jensen GT, 1962 AH Sprite, Alfa-Romeo 159, 1966 Bristol Bus, 1947 AEC Regal bus.
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:21 am

Huh ?

That's the first I've heard of such an idea and in my cynical mind the "50%" sounds like someone trying a wind-up.

However I did go to check the bumf that I usually ignore on my multicar policy and where it comes to the MoT it simply states that I've got to have one "if required by law". So if my car meets the rules for MoT exemption then I don't need one to fulfill my part of the insurance contract. That seems reasonable, pre 1960 cars haven't needed MoTs for a longer period and you didn't hear such tales when they were declared exempt.

I could see an argument developing if someone claims and the insurance assessor finds big wheels and flared body arches to go with a jacked up rear end exposing Jaguar suspension and a stonking V8 under the bonnet which the owner has decided is MoT exempt...... that might be a struggle. :wink:

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PostPost by: Craven » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:28 pm

Food for thought, taken from vincentownersclub.co.uk

As current UK legislation (law) states anything manufactured prior to 1960 doesn't need an MOT then you don't need one which is exactly what Hagerty said when I asked before going with them. You must keep the bike roadworthy though.

I always like to ask myself "what questions are you likely to be asked if it all ends up in an expensive smoking heap somewhere?" and "Do I have an answer that I would be happy to give in court?"

Q1. What steps did you take to ensure that your bike was roadworthy?.
Q2. If you decided not to have it MOT'd why not? What other arrangements did you make?

If your answer to question 1 is not "I had it MOT'd" then you should have an answer other than " well, nothing really" or " My bikes are always ok"

Similarly, the answer to question 2 should not be "Too expensive" or "Couldn't be bothered"

If you choose not to have an MOT and came up with another solution then you should document the steps that you have taken and think of some other questions...

A. What qualified either you or your chosen maintainer / inspector to carry out this work.
B. What did you check and when?
C. To what standards did you inspect?

The answer to 'A' could be "years of experience" or something similar. If you don't really know what you are doing then be honest with yourself and ask someone who does.

For 'B' then you could do worse than printing out the current MOT check list that testers use. You can download it from DVSA HERE . Print it out, fill it in and date it at least once a year for any bikes that you are using.

The standards are all in the MOT inspection manual which is available HERE. Far better to read it and know the answers rather than rely on what your mate down the pub said.
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:35 pm

"How do you know it's ok ? " is an interesting question, and frankly applies whether you have the car MoT'd or not because, as we have discussed before, the MoT is a proof of roadworthiness as it stood on the day it was inspected.

Most of us would struggle with the "do you have a professional qualification ?" type of question so loved these days because I suspect most of us are enthusiasts rather than apprentice (or otherwise) trained mechanics.

But... the cars were sold as kits to be put together by an amateur and it would then have been a "new" car not needing any inspection for 3 years. Although we all know the kit aspect had very big modules pre-assembled, all the safety stuff like brakes, suspension and steering were down to the owner.

What I'm getting at is that these are from an era when home maintenance was normal and so if you've got a folder showing a full body-off restoration that you've done single handedly (as I have) then I reckon you'd be hard pressed to prove the owner doesn't know how to use a spanner.

Incidentally my approach is very much like the suggestion above, I have laminated printed copies of the MoT checklist in the workshop. Around March/April before I think about driving I'll go through the list, usually removing all 4 wheels for a good poke about and tick things off the official MoT list with a whiteboard marker. It probably takes me a couple of days to do it properly but I'd feel confident in justifying that approach. Especially when I could add in some of the faults I've found on cars I've bought with brand new fresh MoTs.....

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PostPost by: nigelrbfurness » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:13 am

We do our own annual inspection on all our vehicles, following the mot check list, even if they aren't mot exempt. An interesting observation we have is that they do so little mileage between annual inspections (typically < 1000) that nothing changes much apart from the water level in the windscreen washer bottles. Compare that with, say, my everyday Alfa which has done over 120k and averages 18,000 miles per year. It has never failed an mot inspection although I have changed
suspension components in between mots when I have spotted the need. ARB links are the favourite, they seem to last about 25k, nearside lca ball joints about 40k. So our classics would be very unlikely to fail an mot and I think that is the rationale for the mot exemption. Bear in mind also that there is no law that says you can't have a car tested but there is a law that says the driver is responsible for the roadworthiness of a car. If you are new to Elans and don't feel confident that you can check it's roadworthiness, have it mot'd. "Simples". We don't have our classics mot'd because it saves us nearly ?400 pa which I'd rather spend on keeping them in top mechanical condition.
1970 S4SE/1760cc big valve/SA-AX block, L2s, 45DCOEs, 1978 Jensen GT, 1962 AH Sprite, Alfa-Romeo 159, 1966 Bristol Bus, 1947 AEC Regal bus.
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PostPost by: Craven » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:46 pm

Knowing how insurance companies introduce or change clauses in their terms and conditions of cover, my post attempts to find if they have sneaked in, and I understand it maybe unique to UK, a requirement to show by means of a verifiable document ?MOT? the vehicles condition.
I think it somewhat naive that having an Agreed Value insurance, a nice man from the company, perhaps in the case of stolen unrecovered vehicle, will hand over a cheque for a 100,000 without question. There is a body of professionals know as ?Loss Adjusters? who job in life is to save insurance companies costs.
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:01 am

Craven wrote:I think it somewhat naive that having an Agreed Value insurance, a nice man from the company, perhaps in the case of stolen unrecovered vehicle, will hand over a cheque for a 100,000 without question. There is a body of professionals know as ?Loss Adjusters? who job in life is to save insurance companies costs.


I'm cynical enough to agree with that comment although I've no real basis for thinking so badly of insurance companies. But we have dealt with loss adjusters (non-motoring) and in the case of our cars it wouldn't surprise me at all to be asked for evidence of maintenance and condition in the case of an unrecovered theft. A good set of photos, both scenic and if I do any work on the car would help here. Plus of course it helps me to remember as well !

I have vague memories of Graham Arnold writing in the club magazine that failing to produce the car keys would get you a black mark as well because they'd assume you'd left them in the car and thus easier to steal.

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