Lotus Elan

Bleeding clutch (v2)

PostPost by: davidj » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:35 pm

Afternoon,

Both my clutch master and slave cylinders were leaking but I could change gear OK. However, as I was on holiday I thought I would take the opportunity to change the seals on both. (first mistake!) I replaced the seals, bled the system and adjusted the slave cylinder so there is just a little clearance with the return spring removed (1 - 2mm).

Now the clutch pedal requires a reasonable (normal) amount of force to operate and the slave cylinder is operating OK, moving the release arm about 10 mm measured at the end of the piston rod. (from memory) However, I cannot get the car into gear with the engine running!

I believe the clutch mechanism is set up correctly and I would not have expected it have seized in the three weeks the car has been laid up. However, I cannot think of what else could be the problem. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

David
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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:11 pm

I don't think it was a mistake to do both. Done that a few times.

Are you getting full travel on the clutch pedal? Do you feel the slight release of pressure when you complete the entire travel? You should feel that so of "give way" feeling right at the end.

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PostPost by: davidj » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:35 pm

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I cannot say I notice the slight drop in pressure, but then again, I don't think I have sufficient "feel" to notice. I have never noticed before, which is probably down to my heavy feet!

David
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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:14 pm

When you start to compress the "fingers" on the pressure plate there is a force required to do so. Once you have got the point where the "fingers" have reached their point where the sort of "give way" you should be feeling a decrease in pedal pressure. If you are not, then I say you are not fully engaging the pressure plate.
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PostPost by: davidj » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:38 pm

Fixed the problem, but the solution has raised another question; On my car there is a screw stop on the pedal box front face which limits the travel of the clutch pedal. This is not shown or mentioned in the workshop manual. I adjusted it fully in and got my gears back.

I have never adjusted the clutch, but I did notice there was no play in the slave cylinder push rod when I removed it from the car, so I guess the previous owner over tightened the slave rod to compensate for the stop being set incorrectly, and when I set the rod correctly the clutch did not disengage as the lever was hiting the stop. After 10 years of owning the car, I thought I had fixed all the disasters by the previous owner.............

Is this stop fitted to anyone else's car?

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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:06 pm

No such thing on an Elan. You must own a +2 then? Can you provide a pic?

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PostPost by: mbell » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:48 pm

I don't think there is one on a +2 either....
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PostPost by: davidj » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:28 am

Yes, it is a +2. I will try and get a picture in the next few days, but will be difficult as the inside of the pedal box is not the easiest place to photo when it is fitted on the car!

If it is a owner mod, I would suspect it was done a long time ago.

Ta

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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:25 pm

A picture would be interesting. You can see the part manuals at http://rdent.com/manuals/index.html

So you should be able to compare with one of the standard pedal boxes (Elan +2 -> Brakes -> Pedals)
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:18 am

I have a similar stop on my 73 Plus 2S 130/5 that I never realised was there until now !!! see the photo below.

I have also had the clutch drag slightly which made selection of first gear when stationary a little difficult for many years. I always assumed this drag was due to the clutch plate not having the Lotus recommended modification to take an amount off the boss at the end of the splines which can cause this problem but when I removed the clutch plate recently I found it had this modification so I was at a loss to understand why the slight drag until now :D

I will be adjusting / removing the stop when I put it back together

cheers
Rohan

Plus2 pedal box clutch stop.JPG and
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PostPost by: mbell » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:05 pm

Looks like I'll also need to take a look at my pedal box on my 73 +2 130/5.

After the rebuild of the hydraulics It didn't want to select 4th or 5th cleanly (up on stands) but the other gears were fine. I put this down to poor bleeding on my part or sticking clutch. Better check that the pedal travel isn't being limited too much.
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PostPost by: Hawksfield » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:25 am

Hi

My 1971 +2 4 speed has an adjusting bolt, it can be seen looking down at the front face near the stoplight switch
Regards

John

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PostPost by: davidj » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:40 am

I have taken some pictures of the stop, but the picture from Rohan shows it more clearly. Mine was screwed in a similar amount to that shown in the picture, so I first thought the limited extra movement I would obtain by adjustment would not make any difference. However, it did, so maybe it is a useful tip!

David


Here is the picture anyway!

IMG_20140826_214740.jpg and
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:08 pm

This has got me thinking that a lot of the dissatisfaction with the Lotus 5 speed box and its weak synchros and poor change may actually be due to this stop preventing complete clutch disengagement in certain circumstances and people blaming the box because knowledge of this stop adjustment did not exist outside the factory when the cars were first built and certainly it is not common knowledge now.

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PostPost by: mbell » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:59 pm

That's a very good point Ronan. I'll be checking this and removing as much of the limit as possible. I didn't know of it's existence and I had by brake light switch out quite a few times and spent a reasonable amount of time poking round that area with out spotting it!

Now my question is why is it there? Simply to stop driver ramming the clutch pedal through the floor or damaging the pedal box?

It's not like Lotus to add cost/weight with out a good reason.....
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