Confused in Colorado

[Ross Robbins]

I, like Ed, need some advice from someone wiser than I am. If not ?dear Abby? or ?Ann Landers? then perhaps the all wise Rohan.

Here?s my problem: I see a solid driver quality Elan with some needs and some kluges that need to be put right stall at just over $15k on eBay. Now I know the seller (our very own ZOG) but the rest of the eBay community may not, so I know the car is as represented and probably will give many miles of enjoyment, but it doesn?t sell because bidding stops at what I think is a well below market price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lotus-Other-Convertible-1965-lotus-elan-s-1-5-/201129856883?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2ed4460f73&item=201129856883&pt=US_Cars_Trucks, ZOG?s friends car a quite usable driver and rolling restoration candidate.

Then I see two really needy project cars actually sell, and at prices that are way above the values I would expect for the amount of work that needs doing and parts that are missing. In fact on the second car noted, the window frame parts may not even be available and will have to be fabricated at great expense.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lotus-Other-convertible-Lotus-Elan-S4-1968-Convertible-Project-Car-with-CA-title-/231282030033?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35d97bb5d1&item=231282030033&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
According to the Seller ?I know almost nothing about it and it has not been checked mechanically. I bought it as a project, and it has been standing until today.?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lotus-Other-Roadster-1967-lotus-elan-roadster-/181449800938?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a3f403cea&item=181449800938&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
Rusted S4 with no windscreen or window frames.


I have seen the same thing with several Europas lately but then they are confusing anyway aren't they?? So, dear Abby here are my questions: What am I missing? Why are these things out of whack as I would see them? Is it me or has the market for usable cars changed?

I am waiting patiently for your wise answer,

Confused in Colorado

[Spyder fan]

In a famous English county going by the name of Yorkshire they have a rather quaint saying
"There's Nowt As Queer As Folk"

There seems to be a popular modern dream of restoring a car from a state that most of us would consider too far gone to be worthwhile, therefore restoration projects are becoming scarce ( or scarcer I should say) hence prices rise accordingly.

A car that runs and is in good order seems less desirable to this fix it up mentality and therefore doesn't sell.

Seriously I think people are nuts to pass over that S1.5, it would sell much better in Europe or the UK, but even here projects are rising faster than the usable cars.

[gjz30075]

Totally agree. And totally confused, too.

Greg Z

[cal44]

Cuz Zog admitted the car was "in a nasty accident the frame was straightened and a new back half was attached" (paraphrasing) .................

That, is honesty to the max and as up front as one can be. So I figure the honesty hurt the sale...just a thought.
Seems like folks would rather bid on a car that doesn't mention some things.

I have purchased parts from "the Zog". Sure enough........he is as honest as anyone I've met.

mike

[rgh0]

I think the lower relative prices for mid range cars comes from fear of the unknown.

With a top of the range car people think it is perfect and needs no work and are prepared to pay a high price with a premium.for certainty
For a car that is boxes of bits people pay a low price but again with premium for the certainty of knowling they have a total rebuild on their hands

For a midrange car people pay a mid range price but with a discount as there is uncertainty about the real condition of the car and how much money will need to be spent on it.

You see the same for twin cam engines - a brand new rebuild from a known builder fetches a premium. A box of bits that can be inspected for condition attracts a premium. A used complete engine of uncertain condition attracts a discount. I would always pay more for a used engine sold dismantled and that could be assessed for condition than the same engine as a complete unit in unknown condition as I would always assume the worst case when buying an unknown complete unit..

cheers
Rohan

[Tahoe]

Ross,

I too was confused, but as I said in another post, I question the legitimacy of some auctions. Shilling is certainly practiced on eBay and when you see cars that sell (supposedly) for 2 to 3 times there real value from sellers you don't know, then you need to stay away from them. Zog is a trusted seller and honest, but still the car was worth much more than the auction ended at. Go figure!?

[Elanintheforest]

I think that Zog's warts-and-all description of the repairs completed to the car would have put off most folks except the folks who know and understand Elans. And most of them already have one!

Many Elans have had a new front or new rear, and most have had a new chassis. But to the owner of an MG, Triumph, Jaguar, Healey, Lotus Cortina etc., then such a description would be an instant page turner.

Words like 'nasty accident', 'had the rear sawed off' and 'had the frame straightened' doesn't sell the car and needn't be said. Full body and chassis restoration may have been a better choice!

I must confess that seeing an Elan that's had it's chassis 'straightened' would give me some worries.

Whilst I'm sure that a sound job was completed on this car, I've seen a couple that have had similar treatment and didn't fair too well. A mate bought an S3 about 10 years back where the frame was still twisted (only very slightly) after an accident, and the body had been repaired around the frame. Net result was that when he came to change the chassis, after clipping a kerb, nothing fitted, and he had to buy a new shell as well.

Mark

[nomad]

Well, I think a reserve auction has something to do with the sale price. I was considering it so that I would have a driver while my S1 project inch'es along but didn't bid because I just assumed the reserve was high enough that I wouldn't want to spend the money.

Hey, the price of corn is WAY down!!

Kurt
26/3754

[Ross Robbins]

OK I get it. Zog is too forthcoming and is not practiced in the art of "spin" as they say in politics. (God Bless you ZOG; I'd bet you've met Diogenes!) So that scares off bidders on a running driving car. A car that you or I could have fun with for a while then improve it over time. That side of the conundrum explained, albeit weakly.

But pray tell, what in the hell motivated the sale of the $20,200 POS that doesn't even run, has rust galore, need EVERYTHING and has significant parts missing? That doesn't even make sense under the most illusion filled restoration scenario. If you start with a cheap pile of bits, then OK; but this was bid far higher than a running driving car. Was there something about that car that made it special? I always understood the early cars were more prized because they can be vintage race approved. If you just kept the ID plate and the bits that you need to build such a racer and sell the other bits that folks like me need, the running car should get to a number equally as high as that hulk and I'd bet it would sell there.

So, I am still confused.

[cal44]

There will never be a reasonable conclusion. It just is.

It's like trying to figure out why 90% of kids in college shouldn't be in college. when only 10% of the 100% should be in college and the 90% shouldn't.................but they go anyway.............and get into debt or the fool for a parent goes in debt.
I'll never understand that one...................and there you have it
Gawd people are perplexing and not in a good way.

[nomad]

It seems that recently a car advertised as a "barn find" and covered with dust will bring the big money.

I'm chalking it up to retired baby boomers needing something to occupy there time and having very little experience!

Kurt
26/3754

[ceejay]

Here is an Aussie S3 elan sitting in a hay shed in Victoria, as you can see it's a tad beyond a basket case. The fibreglass is so weathered on the front nose section of the body you can see through it. Was once a nice car, how much do you reckon this would sell for bearing in mind that there's a gazillion bits stored away in boxes etc.
Unfortunately, I am unable to reveal the location or the owner, but it's a shame to see an S3 elan roadster rotting away like that.

[Spyder fan]

The window frames are worth $2000 !

In the UK it would probably be worth ?8 - ?12k if all the bits were there

[ceejay]

yep, parts are all there, your British pound values equate to 18,000 to 20,000 AU. I happen to know that it sold for half that a few years ago.... and the new owner is yet to take it away....go figure.

[Elanintheforest]

A few years ago it would have sold for half that in the UK as well. I bought a fire-damaged S2 with spare shell for ?4500 in 2008, which now would be ?14k plus.

The shell of that S3 wouldn't be a problem or put folks off in the UK as a new one could be bought for ?2500 or so....cheaper than getting a bodyshop to prepare an old shell for painting!

Mark