Lotus Elan

Values increasing

PostPost by: groucho » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:50 pm

elanner wrote:Of course it all hinges on whether the hood/roof is up or down. In the UK the hood is up more often than not (still, I assume), so the presence or absence of window frames is mostly irrelevant to the look of the car. In the US the hood can be down more often than not (at least for me - my hood has been up for less than a week since I purchased the car three years ago), so the presence or absence of window frames is a lot more apparent.

Interesting observation. My reasoning for not liking them if, is you're going to have an open car, I much prefer it to be a "completely" open car - nothing but a windshield, especially on an older sports car like the Elan. (A rollbar being an exception.) Maybe my opinion is tempered somewhat because my previous sports car was a Porsche 914 - a targa top car, which was fun but it was great to be rid of that rear frame entirely - and window frames would be just one more thing to interrupt the lines. How many other convertibles, electric windows or not, have window frames up all the time? I'm sure there are some, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Again, just my opinion.

While we're talking opinions - how about those enormous rectangular taillights on the type 45s? :mrgreen:
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:46 pm

Another way of increasing the value of your car is To Barn Find one especially the rarer types... Then the value of your car will rise astronomically...

How many 26R's Shapecrafts etc were were made,I guess no one knows for sure, but probably more survive than we're built :lol:

Good topic y the way :)
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PostPost by: DeanG » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:25 pm

I found my Elan in my shed where it had sat for years. Does that make it count as a valuable as a barn find? :lol:
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PostPost by: mariodschy » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:06 am

A bargain:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Elan-Sp ... 7675.l2557

Seems that the prices in general have fallen -> price bubble bursts, or was there ever a price bubble :?:
- 1972 Lotus Elan Sprint LHD/DHC
- 1962 Austin Healey Sprite MK II - Sold 09.05.2016

Sorry for my bad survival English ;-)
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:28 am

Not so much of a bargain...

for-sale-f34/sprint-dhc-bay-t37353.html

But I think you're right that prices have at least flattened out over the past couple of years. Buyers are also now more discerning, and have more choice. If you pay top, 'collector car' money for an Elan, you would expect a perfect restoration to original specification, original colour, original body type and a perfect provenance for the car.

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PostPost by: mariodschy » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:57 am

Elanintheforest wrote:Not so much of a bargain...

for-sale-f34/sprint-dhc-bay-t37353.html

But I think you're right that prices have at least flattened out over the past couple of years. Buyers are also now more discerning, and have more choice. If you pay top, 'collector car' money for an Elan, you would expect a perfect restoration to original specification, original colour, original body type and a perfect provenance for the car.

Mark


Thanks for the link, that explains a lot but still think it's a bargain compared to the > 40k car's which were offered in the past couple of years. But offered doesn't mean sold...
- 1972 Lotus Elan Sprint LHD/DHC
- 1962 Austin Healey Sprite MK II - Sold 09.05.2016

Sorry for my bad survival English ;-)
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:51 am

There was a gorgeous looking Sprint on here that the owner (John aka Worzel) was trying to sell for months. It had quite a few mods, which looked like the right ones to do, and was not in it's original colour or have it's original interior. I don't know what it finally sold for, but the last price he was asking for the car was ?22k. Of course it was a private sale rather that through a dealer, but he had the car for nearly 40 years, so the car had some great provenance

lotuselan-for-sale-f2/fixed-head-sprint-for-sale-t37018.html

That is probably a more realistic price than the ?40k - ?50k you have seen cars being advertised for at some of the dealers. I wouldn't mind betting that it was a far better car to drive and live with than a car fresh out of a restoration that hasn't been 'shaken down' for a few thousand miles to highlight and rectify any problems.

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PostPost by: mariodschy » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:12 am

Elanintheforest wrote:There was a gorgeous looking Sprint on here that the owner (John aka Worzel) was trying to sell for months.
Mark


Yes , I have noticed that and was surprised that selling a car for such a good price could be so difficult.
Currently there is obviously strange movements in the market, time to save money and strike at the right moment
- 1972 Lotus Elan Sprint LHD/DHC
- 1962 Austin Healey Sprite MK II - Sold 09.05.2016

Sorry for my bad survival English ;-)
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PostPost by: trw99 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:42 pm

Hagarty produce perhaps the best available classic car valuation tool.

Their latest commentary on British cars says: "Hagerty?s British Car Index was static for the second consecutive period and has clearly levelled out following a strong run-up from 2013-15. Sunbeam Tigers continued to rise, albeit at a slower rate, but the remaining component cars made only modest changes. We expect this segment to continue this trend for the rest of the year, showing only minimal movement in either direction overall. British cars continue to deliver a style and aesthetic that has broad appeal, but that is currently being counterbalanced by a raft of special interest modern cars that provide a more dynamic and reliable driving experience at a lower price."

There was another interesting statistic I found. Public auctions are a relatively small percentage of collector car transactions, at less than 20%, dealer sales represent an even smaller volume of approximately 12%, whilst by far the largest percentage are private sales at 71.5% (their figures, not mine before you tell me that comes to more than 100!).

They do produce ? valuations for UK sales, but their overall graphs etc tend to reflect the North American market, though that is not made too clear on their site.

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PostPost by: Routen Chaplin Lotus » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:43 am

Elans at ?50K!

Well not many but some are approaching it, they have to be a genuine car though. At the very top end people will only pay for a DHC Sprint if is a Sprint and not "sprint spec" or one that started life as a coupe and got chopped down no matter how well that work has been done.

With every silver lining there is a cloud (something like that anyway) and here it is, we must all be careful to make sure that if you have an agreed value insurance you remember to increase the cars value on the insurance as the market rises, otherwise you could end up out of pocket if the car was written off. Yes that will mean a rise in insurance premium but much better than being paid out by the insurers only to find you can no longer afford to buy another Elan!

Personally I think its a shame they are worth so much these days, if they keep rising at the pace they have then people will stop using them and investors will be buying them to stash away.

Much better to be seen out on a country lane on a sunny day than on the balance sheet of some investment portfolio.

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PostPost by: Wickey » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:47 pm

adigra wrote:Fibreglass cars have always been looked down upon;

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I appreciate this is an old post comment but how things can change.............back in the early 80's fibreglass Ferrari 308's were at giveaway prices under half that of the steel bodied ones as the chassis like the old climax elite was part bonded into the body and difficult for DIY repairs.

Nowadays the fibreglass or vetroresina 308 commands double the value of the steel bodied ones.

Aluminium equally has its problems too as I had an Aston many years back where some panels were just turning to white dust in areas as they rotted away and the Morgan got woodworm in the chassis. So whether it be rusting metal ones or osmosis and stress cracks in fibreglass they all have potential problems.

It appears to me the Lotus +2's have just been a bit slow to catch up in comparison values but as I am still looking for one hopefully they may go down :mrgreen:

I suppose values are really based on things like desireability, condition, rarity of numbers produced and market availability, unless you get some oddball history to a particular car like the rusty Lotus Cortina that was used in the great train robbery and sold back in the 80's IIRC for some 28K GBP when the average back then for one was probably around 2 to 4K GBP and today well for a nice one probably around 40K GBP
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:14 pm

The Bruce Reynolds Lotus Cortina sold in 2009 for just under ?120,000, but it is a unique car. It has done 3000 miles from new, is one of the earliest known Lotus Cortinas, and has never had rust or been in an accident. It's value today is probably heading on for ?200,000.

Ordinary restored early cars are now well over ?100,000, but they have usually had a restoration to the tune of ?60,000 or so.

It was Reynolds personal car, and may have been used for the recce, but that's about all. It spent 20 years in a covered Police pound, then Chapman bought it for his little collection.

The Reynolds car is the 2nd most important road going Lotus Cortina on the planet!
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:40 pm

I wounder what 550VAR is worth nowadays, if a Great Train Robbers car is ?200k it's got to be two or three times that.

All the Clark race cars seem to go for decent money too https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15348/lot/670/

As for Elan's i'd like to think they are appreciating in value but as i work with Classic Jaguars mainly a desirable E-type for example can sell for ?200k easy were the less desirable v12's are starting to knock on ?100k now. Most other Marques have followed suit with Ferrari's just going stupid (never thought i'd see a 308gts break ?100k but they have) all that said Elans seem to have just stopped shy of ?30k, you get exceptions to the rule but it surprises me a little they have been left behind so badly.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:16 pm

The owner was laughed at by many Lotus Cortina owners when he paid ?250k for 550VAR 3 years ago, but he's since been offered nearly double that by a very famous and serious racing driver. It's not for sale at any price though.

Here's the detail of the car....have a look at the provenance section for the car. It doesn't get any better than this.

http://www.lotuscortinainfo.com/?page_id=2172

E Type prices are still quite strange, and they do have to be perfect to get top money. I spent 15 years restoring a S1 Coupe and a S3 OTS, both of which were rust free to start with and finished off by CMC, one of the top E Type restorers. Both sold for 6 figure sums, but both had a large amount of that spent on them. A cheque-book restoration on an E type now with CMC starts at ?150k, and unless it's a very early 1961 3.8, you won't see that money back.

You can still buy a good S2 Coupe or OTS E type 'driver' quality car for less than ?50k, and project cars start at less than ?10k. The E Type Plus 2 is a fair bit less than that.

I'm really pleased that Elan prices haven't followed the E type or Lotus Cortina, and unlike both of those cars, most of the restoration can be done at home by an enthusiast. Undertaking a body-shell restoration of An E Type or Cortina when the only salvageable panel left is the bulkhead is not for the feint-hearted, even if they do have the skills and the jigs!

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PostPost by: Wickey » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:35 pm

Elanintheforest wrote:The Bruce Reynolds Lotus Cortina sold in 2009 for just under ?120,000, but it is a unique car. It has done 3000 miles from new, is one of the earliest known Lotus Cortinas, and has never had rust or been in an accident. It's value today is probably heading on for ?200,000.

Ordinary restored early cars are now well over ?100,000, but they have usually had a restoration to the tune of ?60,000 or so.

It was Reynolds personal car, and may have been used for the recce, but that's about all. It spent 20 years in a covered Police pound, then Chapman bought it for his little collection.

The Reynolds car is the 2nd most important road going Lotus Cortina on the planet!
Mark


The police only held it till around the 70's so not sure of where it went immediately after that till its 2009 sale you refer to but somewhere I have some old polaroid photos of it that were taken back in the 80's when I believe it was again sold at auction for around 27k GBP and it certainly had visible signs of rust around the edges if it was the same car BMK 723A..................but then maybe the police washed and polished it every week it was in the compound :mrgreen:

The problem is there is so much uncrontrolled/possibly incorrect information you see now on the internet it is hard for anyone to decipher the truth......................here is what 'honest John' says and I quote In 1969, BCA handled the sale of Great Train Robber Bruce Reynold?s confiscated Lotus Cortina, BMK 723A, as part of a special auction held at Measham on 4th February 1969. Police had seized race driver Reynold?s prized ?getaway? car along with other Train Robber assets to be sold off as ?proceeds of crime?.

However other websites say the police held it till 1980 in compound............trust me it was rusty(ish) if that makes you happy and anyone who thinks that metal does not rust just sitting in a compound should look at why the whole process of car registartions and year sales to manufacture date has changed over the years.........again IIRC it was years ago but sold Lancias that the engine fell out of as they had been parked up at the ports for years before sold as new
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